Character Speculation

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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:00 am

I scanned the board (admittedly not very thoroughly) and was surprised when I didn't see a general thread like this, at least not on the first page. You'd think it'd have been there considering it's pretty all-encompassing, but it seems most roster discussion happens in other topics.

That said, with time rolling down until the 3DS release, with it currently being a few days after E3 (which I suspect is going to lead to a drought of character information), I figure it'd be a good topic to keep this board active here.

So, without further ado, I'll get to it.


Currently, we have 33 characters confirmed. I'd list them, but that's too bothersome and I'd imagine we know the list anyway. Being that the Mii Fighters are considered one single character despite basically being 3, we could push that number up to 35 (or, theoretically, infinite). Just know that 9 of them are new (11 if you count Miis separate).

Brawl had 39 characters when you factor in alternates (ZSS / Samus, Pokemon Trainer's trio, Zelda / Sheik), so we're pretty close. A long while ago, Sakurai stated this game's roster wouldn't be too much higher than Brawl's, but ath this point that seems unlikely.


Judging based on screen size at E3 that the number is around 47 (plus a random space). We don't actually have any confirmed number.

At this point, most people consider the Gematsu leak to be true, meaning that should we consider that, our number goes up to 36 / 38 (adding Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Kids). Due to various evidence not necessarily to be discussed here, the leak is generally accepted, though, it's definitely from earlier stages in development and is easily subject to change.


Currently, the list of unconfirmed veterans is as follows::


  1. Mr. Game and Watch
  2. Captain Falcon
  3. Ice Climbers
  4. Ganondorf
  5. Meta Knight
  6. Ness
  7. Falco
  8. Wario
  9. Jigglypuff
  10. ROB
  11. Wolf
  12. Lucas
  13. Mewtwo
  14. Snake
  15. Roy
  16. Young Link
  17. Pichu
  18. Dr. Mario
  19. Ivysaur
  20. Squirtle

My little key is that green = I think is pretty guaranteed. Blue is probably but not as confident. Yellow is shakey. Regular is, well, I just have no idea. And Red is pretty much I think have no chance. I added Purple for G&W signifying "basically but not officially confirmed." Also, I changed Snake to red, and simplified the Ness / Lucas and Falco / Wolf thing since it wasn't as easily understood as I thought it might be.


Last edited by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:01 am

Now, during the Direct in April, Sakurai played a little game with the viewers in a manner akin to "who's the Pokemon!?" by showing us trophies within the game. It was thought then and is still thought now that he was hinting characters in the game.

The trophies were thought to be linked to new characters being added to the game. There was Fire Emblem's Tiki, who people thought matched with Chrom but has since been associated with Ike's return, Pseduo-Palutena, who people thought matched up with the Goddess herself (who was confirmed), Fi, who was more of a free-for-all for a Zelda rep (though I think is simply Ganondorf-- perhaps with some changes like a sword or something), and finally the King Kihunter.

The first three fit already. Two of them have characters confirmed to match them, with one of them being a newcomer and the other a (radically changed aesthetically) veteran. However, being that the Gematsu leak also provides another Fire Emblem character, Tiki could have been Chrom's hint and Ike could have been an unintentional / completely intentional throwoff, especially since Tiki actually interacts with Chrom.

If it was meant for Chrom, that could throw off the Ganondorf thing and imply a new Zelda character, possibly Ghiraham due to his counterpart being Fi. And of course, the King Kihunter, as a Metroid enemy, would likely go to Ridley.


Thoughts on any / all of this?
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Post by Count Mario on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:19 am

Copy and paste this to an OP edit just for the sake of convenience:

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Rosalina
Donkey Kong
Diddy King
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Toon Link
Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario
Greninja
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
King Dedede
Fox
Marth
Ike
Olimar
Pit
Palutena
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Little Mac
Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Mii Fighters

And personally, I'd switch out ROB with Falco or Wolf in that character expectancy list, but that's just me. Also, why are Ness and Lucas listed twice?

As for the Trophy theory, I see where you're going with it. But it could still go in a million directions though. I can personally one more FE rep, personally. But the Zelda thing is quite shaky with Ganondorf not having been announced yet, and Ghirahim's not replacing him in a million years.
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:50 am

I listed Wolf / Falco and Ness/ Lucas twice to signify that it's one of them, but I can't quite say which they'll pick. For instance, I'm confident Wolf or Falco will get in, but not as much for both. That "both" refers to the second "or" pairing.
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Post by BigBox on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:11 am

Game and Watch has already pretty much been revealed in Pac-Man's reveal.  There is no speculation of his inclusion, he's almost in every sense of the word confirmed.
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:38 am

But he still technically isn't.
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Post by BigBox on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:39 am

I disagree, I would say he is.
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Post by DP on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:42 am

Yeah, I was gonna say what Vice covered already. G&W was shown IN Pac's trailer when listing the latter as the oldest rep in Smash. Plus Sakurai apparently mentioned off-hand in the Q&A something involving G&W.

If you do edit the roster in, A: Just throw G&W in as the 34th, and B: Spoiler tags on that please to prevent a text wall. 

I put Snake in Red, personally. Konami gave Kojima a free pass on that once, but they won't pass up the chance to shoehorn Big Boss in. And Nintendo wouldn't budge on Big Boss. It just doesn't seem likely to me that lightning strikes twice. I see the roster as being the current 34, all of your Greens, Jiggs, Mewtwo, Ridley, the Gematsu crew (Rhythm Heaven rep as a possibility that I think was cut during development), and ONE of the two remaining Brawl "clones" (either Wolf or Lucas, likely Wolf if one of them). That's 48. I still see ROB being cut; he's got no reason to leave in particular, but he has no reason to stay either. 

And let's remember that a character select screen means squat from any pre-launch build. At this point, I feel like they may just nail a solid 50; my 42 prediction is impossible without enraging the entire fanbase with all the cuts, so I may as well shoot high. I can only see 50 with ROB returning and another Zelda rep to fill that Trophy quota you mentioned, and I only see ROB returning if Namco was FANTASTIC at working efficiently. Based on the October launch date for 3DS, perhaps they did exactly that, working efficiently enough to cram more shit into the game than Nintendo expected when it wanted a Summer launch.
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Post by Count Mario on Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:50 am

It's only too bad that one or two pics of the day are going to prove to be quite lackluster when Game & Watch is bound to be shown off sooner or later lol.
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:07 am

Like I said, technically, G&W isn't official yet. I have him listed as "pretty much guaranteed," but since he hasn't been added to the Smash site, I won't consider him "confirmed."

It'd be a shame to see ROB go, imo, which is why I placed him lower. I mean, I could see them getting rid of him, but it seems kind of odd to considering G&W and Ice Climbers being returning retros (from Melee to Brawl so far, the very least) and him being even less clone than Wolf and Lucas, who are both already incredibly different from their base (with Wolf sharing almost no moves).
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Post by this_is_marko on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:50 pm

I would swap ROB and Ness on the list purely because Ness has a legacy in smash brothers since the beginning.  Don't get me wrong.  I loved using ROB in brawl but I just can't see ROB coming back, especially if the choice is between him and Ness
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Post by DP on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:17 pm

He has two Ness/Lucas slots, one for each character. Ness would likely be the one in Green. 

If might be better to just put one name in the OP and guess the likelihood of returns lol, just to prevent confusion.it's already gotten people a few times.
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:32 pm

I edited the OP a little bit.
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Post by BigBox on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:42 pm

I just noticed Jigglypuff's name is blue.  It should be green, or purple.  I can almost guarantee she will be in.
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Post by this_is_marko on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:07 pm

Okay you changed snake to red.  I had a whole post ready to go on why he should be changed from gray to red haha (even though he was my best character in brawl)
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Post by 0CTAVE on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:29 pm

For those of you saying Game and Watch is confirmed as a playable character, why isn't he listed as one yet? He's not confirmed until he appears on the character list. Just cause he showed up at the end of a video doesn't mean he's confirmed just speculated/assumed he's in. Judging by appearances like that we could say that Dark Pit is in the game as a playable character for the same reason.

With that being said I stand by Pirate's placement of Game&Watch until he's listed as returning and playable. Game&Watch has always had another role besides playable character, oldest character in the game and he's a stage. Not saying that he won't be in but he's not confirmed yet.
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Post by DP on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:37 pm

Dark Pit isn't a returning character. There's a big difference between the two. If they were to show G&W, and NOT make him playable, it'd cause such a backlash that Sakurai would rue the day he thought it'd be funny. And as I noted, Sakurai mentioned G&W directly already, in what was apparently the kind of comment that practically confirmed him. 

He's not in the roster, but he SHOULD pretty much have his own color with Captain Falcon that lists them as "not official but 100% gonna be in," rather than slapped in green. Edit: Saw the updated OP
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Post by Thirty3Three on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:21 pm

The demo just had 4 outfits. Notice how wireframe mac's costume wasn't in the demo. There are more costumes. Don't worry guys.
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Post by dragonfire111 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:34 pm

if we are speculating may as well speculate newcomers as well

if gematsu is true
Chrom
Shulk
Chorus Men (some people say leaker mixed up them and marshal)

the current most desired newcomers (at least in the west)
Ridley
King K. Rool
(to a much lesser extent)
Issac
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Post by DP on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:18 pm

I don't see K. Rool as a huge likelihood, honestly. His relevance to DK has dropped in recent years, and while I'd love to have him, I can't see him in the full game. Getting another DK rep at all would surprise me after the franchise got totally shafted in MK8
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Post by papertoonz on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:35 pm

DP wrote:I don't see K. Rool as a huge likelihood, honestly. His relevance to DK has dropped in recent years, and while I'd love to have him, I can't see him in the full game. Getting another DK rep at all would surprise me after the franchise got totally shafted in MK8

the DK series did get a bump after brawl with returns and tropical freeze so getting another DK wouldn't be out of the question but it wouldn't be K. Rool, it would more likely be dixie kong due to data in brawl suggesting she would be playable and her being playable in tropical freeze

and also why do people think Rob will be cut? i am asking cause i hear alot of people saying he will be cut
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Post by dragonfire111 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:09 pm

DP wrote:I don't see K. Rool as a huge likelihood, honestly. His relevance to DK has dropped in recent years, and while I'd love to have him, I can't see him in the full game. Getting another DK rep at all would surprise me after the franchise got totally shafted in MK8
i never said k rool was likelier than dixie but he is sure as hell alot more requested than she is.
and if DK doesnt get another rep then it got really shafted because thatll mean it got less representation than series smaller than it atm


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Post by DP on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:11 pm

My reasoning is purely because he'd be the one the least people would whine about being cut. He doesn't have any reason to leave, but he has no reason to really stay either, as a Brawl newcomer. Plus he's one of the least-played characters in Brawl. 

And Tropical Freeze is a reason for a new DK rep, yeah, but its sales are not. Plus, TF solidifies that K. Rool probably won't appear because he was absent from that game entirely (unless he was a surprise final boss - I haven't looked into the game much).
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Post by dragonfire111 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:14 pm

pity about tropical freeze not selling well it was a great game.
he was an easter egg in the background of one level if i remember correctly
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Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Thirty3Three wrote:The demo just had 4 outfits. Notice how wireframe mac's costume wasn't in the demo. There are more costumes. Don't worry guys.

I'm not sure you meant to post this here.
From what I saw in the GameXplain video, they didn't have a 4th color for Rosalina (she had regular, pink, and gold) or Sonic (regular, silver, light blue), and WFT only had two color options but could switch to Male WFT.



Anyway, people think ROB won't come back because he's very obscure and wasn't a terribly popular addition. A lot of people didn't use him, and so he wouldn't be as missed as someone like Ice Climbers or something.


About the K. Rool thing, he's definitely nowhere near Ridley in terms of being requested. I'm not even sure I'd say he's more requested than Isaac.
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