Fan Ideas/Requests for Moveset Wises/Changes

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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:15 am

I've sort of been a complete pessimist over how Mario is progressing in Axis lately and definitely despise the make-up of Mario's moveset in Smash Bros with a passion, so I collaborated with lpool in order to create a moveset that both takes certain esthetics from Smash and the Supers confirmed for Axis, but mainly reinvents Mario to the point of actually being an intuitive and useful character in comparison to the rest of the probable roster. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for this moveset to be the official one or that it's easy to sprite and balance these moves in just a few minutes, but I just hope to possibly shed some inspiration on the Axis team. Oh, and one quick note. Even though all three Supers included are from the official Axis moveset, lpool had a genius idea for the Level 2 that I agree with wholeheartedly.

Square Button  : Two Punch + One Kick Combo

(Description): Originated from Super Mario 64 and has become a Smash staple for Mario. Doesn't need much explanation.
 
↑ Square Button  : Super Jump Punch

(Description): Up Square would naturally be Mario's traditional Super Jump Punch, which is Up B in the Smash games, and would be a nice way to introduce aerial combos if the knockback is slightly reduced from its recognizable power in the Smash games. And for anybody who recognizes this move from Smash, coins pop out of enemies when this is used as a neat little cosmetic effect.

Square Button  : Spin

(Description): Horizontal Square would be the Spin from the Galaxy series. It would sort of be similar to Jak's Spin, but also different. You see, this Spin doesn't have as much knockback and I see this being used for extensive combos. On the ground, it could be a good way to stun enemies within a very close distance for less than a second and be lead up with, say, a fireball combo or something. During midair, however, it can be used to link midair combos and promotes slight elevation in the air.

Square Button  : Roll/Ground Pound
 
(Description): Down Square in midair should be the Ground Pound (seriously, why this is not in Mario's moveset in any of the Smash games while Yoshi and freaking Bowser have it, I will never know) while if its used on the ground, Mario rolls along the ground, avoiding Projectiles and closing distances fast and safely. This was actually inspired by Mario's roll in 3D World, in which it actually debuts as a usable move.



Triangle Button  : Fireball

(Description): Horizontal Triangle is Mario's traditional Fireball move, but here's the catch. Remember Ratchet's Constructo Pistol from All-Stars? Now, regardless of whether you think that should get replaced or not, I feel that Mario should actually have Fireballs in that format. You see, in the 2D Mario games, you can actually only unleash two fireballs consecutively until at least one of them hits an enemy or goes off screen. So if we apply the Constructo Pistol format (AKA, firing two fireballs at an opponent and then a third with high knockback a second later) and power or the Fireball, it can actually stay true to the games while actually being a useful move.


↑ Triangle Button  : Rocket Nozzle

(Description): Mario's infamous robotic dousing device arrives in its Rocket Nozzle form in order to lend some assistance.  Mario quickly charges up F.L.U.D.D. (for about two-three seconds) and then launches himself into the air. This move is mainly for clearing aerial space and counters.

→  Triangle Button  : Cape Flick

(Description): A classic from the SSB series and Super Mario World, Mario flicks his mighty cape, flinging back projectiles and flicking enemies up for an nice aerial combo.

↓ Triangle Button  : Stop, Hammer Time

(Description): he pulls out his Hammer for a two-hit knockback combo (which would have Mario bop an enemy downward, and then punt them into the distance as if he was hitting a golf ball). In the air he does a full 360 spin with the Hammer, hitting foes all around him.




Circle Button  : Penguin Blast

(Description): Mario dons his Penguin Suit, flinging a snowball in either direction. In midair, the snowballs make a 45 degree angle from origin to the floor before continuing. This move temporarily stuns enemies in an ice block, and actually has them usable for platforms in the couple of seconds that they're stunned.

↑ Circle Button  : Starman Jump 

(Description): Mario pulls out a Starman and leaps up into the air, this attack has super armour and is great as a launcher.

→  Circle Button  : Tail Swipe

(Description): Mario absorbs a Super Leaf to turn into one of his most famous power-ups of all time, Tanooki Mario. This button has you swipe Mario's tail into an enemy, producing notable knockback. This can also be used to reflect any incoming projectiles, mid air it slows decent. It also causes knockdown, allowing for grounded combo potential on contact, however its slower than the Cape. While in this form, Mario is able to reduce falling time by flailing his legs while wagging his tail in midair.

Circle Button  : Shellio Parry

(Description): Mario hides in a Blue Koopa shell. When hit, he slides towards and underneath a foe, stopping on contact (To allow for projectiles). This allows him to keep the pressure up against Zoners who got away. 




↑ Right 3 Button  : Mario Striker

(Description): Mario makes use of his sport prowess by grabbing and throwing an enemy slightly upward, in which he follows up with a kick that sends them flying as if they were a an actual soccer ball.

→ Right 3 Button  : Bowser Swing

(Description): Mario borrows his SM64-inspired swing from Smash Bros and grabs an enemy extremely close to him. He then proceeds to spin him around and then send him flying off into the opposite direction from when Mario was facing when the Grab was in initiated.

↓ Right 3 Button  : Stomp

(Description): Mario's trademark attack, he holds a foe still and jumps on their head for a Triple Jump. 




Supers:

Right 2 Button  1: Bros Before Foes

(Description): Luigi pops by in order to perform his traditional Green Missile headbutt move. The move has an average range and quick usage (think of Sly's level 1 with Murray when thinking about this).

Right 2 Button  2: Mario Finale 

(Description): Mario blast a red hot swirl of flame across the screen, the angle can be altered during the charge. Default across screen in direction previously facing, radius significantly nerfed from the Smash version. It's slower so its bigger than Radec's but also larger and its kill hit box is massive. When used in the air, it is the same as before in the air with a default of diagonally down.

 
Right 2 Button  3: Mushroomy Kingdom: This is basically Mario's answer to Sackboy's Level 3, but imagine rows of blocks floating over the battlefield instead of bubbles. During the first respawn, enemies are hidden inside three of the visible Question Blocks, in which hitting them will either reveal a stunned enemy, AP, or an item.

Additionally, if we really want to go the extra mile, Mario could even have unique abilities outside of just his moves. For example:

Stomp: Mario landing on a foe results in a 5 ap gain for the plumber and some stun. This is mainly for easter eggs, however, and not safe for actual combat beneficence. 

Triple Jump: If Mario jumps and lands without double jumping or stopping forward momentum, he will jump higher each time to a max of three. 

lpool and I mainly tried to focus of the consensus of Mario acting as an up-close/occasional mid-ranged fighter who tries to get in hits, backs away, and then goes in again. And I could list several potential combos already possible for this moveset, most notably relying on the Spin.

So, what do you guys think? Feel free to leave your thoughts as well as requests/expectations for other confirmed or possible Axis characters within this thread.
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Post by 0CTAVE on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:21 am

No worries on the Mario-moveset department but I love this topic man. Mainly because there's some things here that we're doing but not in the way you've presented them lol I won't go any further than that! :P

I like the ideas though! =D
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Post by this_is_marko on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:16 am

*scoffs* Mario?  What a waste of a slot.  No one's gonna know who that is
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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:19 am

I know, right? Big Boss and the King of All Cosmos get moved to only being possible in DLC, but this out of shape italian plumber drug dealer gets in the roster? I'm petitioning the forum to get Stachy-o out.

And thanks, Slay Slay. I expect the highest of expectations of your crew's plans, though. Because if you fail me...

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Last edited by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by this_is_marko on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:27 am

Count Mario wrote:I know, right? Big Boss and the King of All Cosmos get moved to only being possible in DLC, but this out of shape italian plumber drug dealer gets in the roster? I'm petitioning the forum to get Stachy-o out.
typical game designers.  They always push this kind of stuff to be DLC
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:02 pm

K i got a couple of ideas for R&C. i'll post the whole set with changes from PASBR in bold. 


N Square Button : Wrench Combo
  
↑  Square Button Lightning Ravager
↓  Square Button NETHERBEAST COMBO/Hyper Strike: As soon as I saw this move in ITN I knew it was made for Axis. I voiced my idea in the R&C Thread but to repeat, Ratchet whips out his new Netherbeast pet and flicks him at the foe, initiating a long range combo. This move is a combo but a Zoning move. It hits at about the same Range as the Combustor for a 4 hit combo. The first and second hit are just slashes, the Third a launcher and the Fourth a spike with the third hit being easily cancellable into the Warmonger, the Ravager if you can step quickly, a run and Ratchets new Up Grab. Aerial its still the Hyper Strike
Square Button Wrench Throw


Triangle Button  Sonic Eruptor
↑ Triangle Button Warmonger
↓ Triangle Button   Nether Blades (Reskin)
Triangle Button   Combustor (Reskin)



N Circle Button Plasma Striker
↑ Circle Button  FUSION GRENADE: Think of Sweet Tooths Molotov, thats what this is except faster with a constant arc, Launching Capabilities and a Larger Area. And Explosions. 
↓ Circle Button Tesla Spikes 
Circle Button  Agents of Doom.



  
↑ Right 3 Button VORTEX GRENADE: Like all Ratchets Grabs This one is Special. It is thrown into the air at height and Stays out for a length of time, with Ratchet free to move around during that time, it will only Pluck Aerial Opponents from their path and into its vortex and they are Combo able by the Netherbeasts, Warmonger and more. 
↓ Right 3 Button   SWINGSHOT: This Grab pulls enemies from long range in close, having a long range of effect but not a very large hitbox. Once Pulled in Ratchet butts the foe with whatever weapon is on his person. IN THE AIR THIS MOVE WILL LATCH ONTO STAGE SIDES AND IS A RECOVERY GRAB, BUT WILL NOT GRAB FOES. (this is useful for of course saving yourself but also running away. 
→ Right 3 Button Suck Cannon,. Only works with This command now but if successful still works on all Axis it used to. 




Right 2 Button 1: RYNO, For a second i thought maybe a morph gun, but then i slapped myself. 


Right 2 Button 2: Clanks turn, like PASBR,  But Clank can throw his Propellers with Triangle, kills on contact. 



Right 2 Button 2 Air: GIANT CLANK BOMB: Clank flies to the Top Corner in the opposite Direction Ratchet is Facing in Cinematic time, He rears his head again as Giant Clank and launches a massive bomb which travels quickly from his corner to the bottom corner on the other side, creating a small explosion on contact, killing all in its flight path.


Right 2 Button 3: In Flight Dance Music: Ratchet pulls out all the stops for his grand finale. He throws a Groovitron, making all players only able to have limited movement for the duration. He Activates his jetpack, Pulls out the Mighty RYNO 7 and.......fill in the Gaps. 




Other Traits: 

↑:X Button : : Jetpack: Ratchet can fly for a limited time with this move, adding more recovery to his arsenal 

↓ - X Button : High Jump: Why did SLy have this And the other Platformers didn't? Ratchet Crouches then goes 1.5 times his normal jump height in one leap. 

X Button (Hold): Glide.
Jump Cancels out the ass. 


Summary: Ratchet doesn't lose much from his PASBR set but gains alot. he isn't game breaking but he is a very good all around fighter. the Addition of new, if orthodox grabs, some recovery and a devastating SUper set change or two give Ratchet just the tools he needs to stay at the top of the tier list without curb stomping the competition. 

on more thing. for this to work, you guys need to implement something you should be anyway. Grabs can no longer Reset Combos. removing resets removes the possibilities of infinites while adding comb potential. it would help balancing alot.


Last edited by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:05 pm

I like some of these ideas, but is it really necessary for Mario to actually put on the Penguin suit for example for these moves? In Smash he doesn't turn into Fire Mario when he throws fireballs. (And no, Fire Mario wasn't an alternate costume until Brawl.) I think it'd be fine if he just did the motion, rather than having him put on the suit, then do the motion. But that's just me.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:10 pm

its to promote Accuracy. if you compare PASBR To Smash in terms of how well the characters were presented, PASBR did it Infinitely better. Kratos feels like Kratos, Ratchet feels like Ratchet, FP Feels shit ect. The aesthetics are part of this. thats what count wanted to get at. i just kinda helped him with it.
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:40 pm

I dunno, it feels like it might make the attacks slow in terms of startup. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Having never actually played PSAS, that may not be an issue, but I dunno.

Also while I'm posting, Ness's level 3 has to be PK Rockin. No questions.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:27 pm

it shouldn't really. the best example is Ratchet. he changes guns with every attack it doesn't effect startup in the slightest. its a lightning fast change, perhaps a puff of smoke during the animation shows the change. But it shouldn't effect anything
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:48 pm

Oh OK never mind then. I guess it's fine.
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Post by this_is_marko on Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:54 pm

Sackboy should have the paintinator as one of his moves.  That was easily the most fun power-up in littlebig planet.
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:05 pm

Ness should only use PSI attacks he learns in EarthBound. (Which is to say he shoudn't use Thunder, Fire, Magnet, or Starstorm)
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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:18 pm

Yeah, lpool pretty much covered me all the way. Instantaneous puff a smoke solves everyone's problems lol. Mario could technically just change into Ice Mario, but I'd prefer a full Penguin costume for more noticeable representation and it could still be an alternate color. Mario doesn't need a change for fireballs because he's already gotten away with it in Smash four times and he's actually been able to use fire-based techniques outside of the platformers several times, so I'm fine with it.

I'm still really thinking about a way to get Yoshi represented, though. I tried to implement him in Mario's moveset, but lpool brought sense into me by explaining how they were all no-gos (I still wouldn't mind Yoshi appearing for one of Mario's grabs, though). But if Ratchet can survive without Zurkon, then Mario can outlive Yoshi. Besides, I actually have a bit of an item idea that could solve this dilemma...

Additionally, just a little idea. How about a Jetpack sprite replacing Ratchet's Hoverboots? I only say this because the Jetpack actually levitates while the Hoverboots (outside of Azimuth's extreme moves during cutscenes) don't really have that ability, canonically. I'm only offering this so that the Jetpack can find a way to be featured while also staying true to the series, but I can understand if the Hoverboots are already enough and get the job done with less spriting.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:23 pm

Neß wrote:Ness should only use PSI attacks he learns in EarthBound. (Which is to say he shoudn't use Thunder, Fire, Magnet, or Starstorm)
I'd say ness is going to get PSI moves to represent `the entirety of the series, i doubt we will see someone like Lucas for some time

additionally Count, i put the Jetpack in as a Trait and a Super. thats enough lol. though maybe Ratchet should be one of few characters to get a sprint with the boots (In the current roster it'd basically be him and Mario) but i gave him alot of buffs (Not drastic ones but yes buffs) In my set so it would be pushing it.
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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:30 pm

You know, the Hoverboots could replace Hermes Boots as a speed item. Especially since the Fusion Bomb is likely to be in Ratchet's moveset with Zurkon most likely getting the boot. But I'm REALLY getting ahead of myself when I say this. XD

And it's in one of the Supers? Oh, you must be talking about how Clank flies in the beginning of your aerial level 2 lol. Okay.
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:33 pm

I don't think he should have moves from other games. If you're going to make him use PSI from other characters, at least make them come from EarthBound. Making Ness use PK Love for example. is a stupid idea. (For those unaware, PK Love is Lucas's move that only he can learn)
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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:34 pm

Well, does he have enough moves to support a whole moveset? If not, then I don't blame him for using other people's PK powers. It's not exactly true to the games, but if the powers are accurate and benefit Ness in the end, I personally don't mind.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:37 pm

Nope. Read the LVL 3. 

the aerial LVL 3 is his Heli Pack only if it needs specifics (Clank can fly in way too many ways its not funny anymore, just give the dude wings...OH WAIT THEY DID THAT ALREADY) just cause its the most recent way he's done it when "Scouting ahead" in ITN.


from a flavour standpoint i agree but good look filling 24 Moves max (3 buttons, 4 inputs, Grounded and Aerial) 3 grabs and 3-4 supers with what Earthbound had.  if you can, great, i've never played it. if you can't hes gotta pull from elsewhere.

Shit i've been Greninja'd 
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Post by Neß on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:41 pm

Fine, have him steal moves from Paula and Poo. Most of Ness's move are support based aside from Rockin and Flash. He should not steal moves from Lucas, or any other character not from Mother or Mother 3.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:44 pm

Yeah i remember researching both of em (Lucas and Neses)for the Lpolls they need to steal other moves to do anything. being a Cleric isn't as good in a fighter as an RPG
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Post by Count Mario on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:56 pm

Ah, I see. I just read Groovitron and just skimmed past it while reading the SSM Annual lol.
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Post by Count Mario on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:03 am

@lpool:

Can't your level 3 for your Ratchet moveset have him carry a Morph weapon instead of the RYNO VII? Here's why I say this:

1. *CENSORED BY DP, CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.*And if it were removed, well, you just removed a vital part of what makes the V and VII models epic as hell.

2. The RYNO is already represented in the first Super, so I personally think it would be redundant to have ANOTHER Super use a weapon from that line, as OP and epic as it is. 

3. The Morph series deserves representation for being just as much (or even MORE) of a series staple as the RYNO series and make the Super even more awesome than it already is with the dancing by having players turned into animals. Not to mention that I think having a Morph weapon would balance the power of Ratchet's Super a bit more considering how he's pretty much the only character at this point who has TWO Supers where he's free to roam about the map as he pleases. Now, that isn't to say that the Morph weapon has to suck. Auto-aim in close range can be implemented and the beam length can be suitably adjusted to suit a level 3.

So yeah. If I were to say which Morph weapon it would be, though, I would say the Chimpositron. Seeing Nefarious turn into an organic monkey will forever be burned into my memory...

Additionally, I'm thinking about making a moveset for a certain blue speedster. I know he hasn't been confirmed, but I don't really care lol.


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Post by DP on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:12 am

Count, some things you know aren't revealed yet. Just Saiyan. Also I didn't care to even touch the color of your post when I took out that bit of info.
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Post by Count Mario on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:18 am

DP, I was talking about what lpool offered for Ratchet's moveset. You can literally do whatever the hell you want for Ratchet and I have complete faith in you. Sorry, didn't specify. XD
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