Super Official Nerf/Buff thread.

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Post by lpool1996moh on Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:53 pm

surprised this hasn't been brought up. basically how you would nerf/buff certain characters. POST AWAY!

Kratos

Nerf
Ap cost of supers
make square moves more punishable. they attempted this and failed.

Buffs.
i would say add a reliable confirm for his one but they don't do that. so none needed really


Sweet tooth

none


Parrappa

none

FP
hard to tell until the patch takes full effect

Radec

fine

sly

fine

cole

fine

dave

fine

ratchet

fine

jak

buff

keep the ap but switch the needles back to the way they were before
if you guve one to kratos jak needs a confirm

Big daddy

maybe nerf hus ap gain but i see no need

dante

he needs buffs somewhere....maybe increase pistol ap slightly, MAYBE


Heihachi

I actually don't know. nobody plays him well enough for me to check

Nariko

just....put her back pre patch and keep the current two. that nerf was really uncalled for.

Raiden

he has a zero to dead........put the grab back. no more bouncing


Sackboy

hes fine

dan

hes fine

spike

fine

toro

fine

Kat

where do i begin.

punish her normals nerf the debris nerf the slide the pull and the down grab remove her Zero to deads whether they be lag only or not fix her frames.

emmett

fine

isaac

reduce the mines armor and fix bugs

Zeus

decrease teleports recovery OR the charge on down square. maybe both but thats pushing it

reduce charge time on down circle and neutral circle

make a grab have combo potential.

fix glitches



i don't know all the characters well enough to comment on em all so post your thoughts and suggestions.
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Post by DP on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:16 pm

I think that if they buff something of Dante's (which is hard, because if they buff any one move it will become abused and ruin the point of being a long combo-based character), they have to nerf one of his Supers. Either the 2 or 3, more likely the 3. I say this because they either have to make it risky to go for a 3 (in case you have to get a 2 off, think of the Sweet Tooth effect here), or they have to lower the pure power of the 3 itself.

Raiden could use a change or two somewhere, probably to his lvl2 if they keep his AP gain, but I'm not sure exactly what I'd want to change as a Raiden sub.

With Kat, at this point I just want them to slow down her three kick square combo, just to shut people up. If that's slowed down then she's apparently a completely different character according to some (even though it changes absolutely nothing about her in 1v1, the very place most people complain about her in). That's outside of my acceptance of them lowering her slide distance and other slight changes I don't really mind.
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Post by Count Mario on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:36 am

Oh no no no no NO. The needles for Jak are way better now than they were originally. If anything, the Wave Concussor should gain some of it's old stats again. Or, you know, the Mass Inverter getting ANOTHER buff...
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Post by SuperShadowify on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:51 am

They need to nerf Radec's sniper rifle, have you seen the knockback on that thing? Ridiculous.
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Post by DP on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:14 am

It's such an unsafe attack, though. Its slow startup gives enough time for most lvl1s to go off if Radec misses. Sort of like Kat's down-square (easily her worst move). Not to mention it's really easy to bypass. I've stood against nerfing it ever since the beta, and I see no reason to change it now that it's not being abused nearly as much.
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Post by Vytrova on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:17 am

Change "Evil Cole" to "Dave" in the next update
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Post by DP on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:19 am

I did it for him. No Dave is a travesty.
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Post by Vytrova on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:44 am

YES! Haha I meant in the actual game but this is just as good.
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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:11 am

Yeah Radec's sniper is fine it was already nerfed in the beta(EU) he got around 70-80 ap off of it he got lvl3s like CRAZY Hey .

Since Sb main focus is to balance 4player play(FFA & 2v2)i'll just balance by that
if they aren't listed then there fine

Nariko
I agree put her back the way she was

Ratchet
Decrease the time on his lvl1 but decrease the recovery

Fortesque
Give him easier combo options so he can ap burst
Make him a bit faster
lvl3 should kill on impact but up the cost to 800ap

Kratos
Make him like Nariko little ap off his long range attacks and gain ap soley through combos
Make his square combos punishable
Allow him to cancel his sword dive(bit iffy on this)

Sly
Give THE MURRAY BACK
his fwd triangle should be unsafe on block and gain 10-15ap
up his lvl3 cost to 800
Allow barrel to absorb projectiles for ap


General
Remove All Kcs (unless there by wall setup)


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Post by lpool1996moh on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:37 am

Ratchets level one is fine.

As for kill confirms.....ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? The entire meta is built around them. Changing that is SUICIDE!

Sly is fine Dan is fine. Kratos needs changes mainly an ap nerf and square moves punishable that's it.

given the changes in the patch I know they take 1v1 into consideration. Its not all ffa and 2v2.
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Post by Fabsta1994 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:17 pm

lpool1996moh wrote: Dan is fine.

Weren't you the same guy saying "Dan sucks, his supers suck" before? What's changed now that makes him fine? I'm honestly curious.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:20 pm

i learned more about the game. hes tricky but good. cutting out projectiles helps alot.
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Post by Fabsta1994 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:21 pm

Alright, thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:34 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:Ratchets level one is fine.

As for kill confirms.....ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? The entire meta is built around them. Changing that is SUICIDE!

Sly is fine Dan is fine. Kratos needs changes mainly an ap nerf and square moves punishable that's it.

given the changes in the patch I know they take 1v1 into consideration. Its not all ffa and 2v2.
don't really wanna argue but imo kill confirms ruin the point of the hyper system whats the point of a lvl2 and lvl3 if i can just use my 1hit kc i'm fine if there situational (wall or items) but the very easy ones need to go not to mention the update got rid of some of them or made them harder.
Ratchets lvl1 lasts to long imo it should receive something.
Sly can spam foward triangle for a easy lvl3 and it isn't punishable and his lvl3 is pretty much guaranteed 5kills (4in 2v2) due to the rollkilling hitboxes pretty much gave the buffs so he'd receive something but he doesn't need em.
Dan is so slow i'd atleast give him easier combo options and his hypers are meh...
i agree on kratos

Idk i remember reading where a 1vs1 player told a employee that Jak was ruined (or somewhat bad) in 1vs1 and the employee responded that they would love to balance on 1v1 but 4 players (FFA and 2v2) where their main concern with the game.


Edit: found it


"You’re probably going to be disappointed to hear this, but our primary focus in balancing had to be four-player free-for-all mode. Personally i wish we had more freedom to rebalance with 1v1 in mind, but we were told that every change absolutely had to support 4P FFA gameplay first.

I’ll be honest, it was a minor miracle that Jak was even viable in 1v1 matches, and we tried to solidify that a little bit by giving him some reliable combos into lvl2 super. But most of these changes were done to make him more fun in FFA and 2v2 modes, with more weapon variety and slightly less reliance on F+Triangle and air D+Circle.

In that regard, the change to F+Circle was meant to give Jak another reliable long-range attack. I didn’t realize people were using it as makeshift anti-air, but in fairness, you’re probably one of only five people on the planet doing that. Everyone else was wondering why it didn’t have more range or build more AP. We certainly didn’t mean to “stealth nerf it into the ground.”

Thanks for letting me know about the neutral Circle drone not bouncing off walls. I’ll remove it from the list. It’s unfortunate that didn’t make it into the final patch, but i think the other improvements to that move are still helpful.

Regarding the change to air F+Square, it’s impossible to get that followup punch to connect 100% of the time, but it should work more consistently now."



Last edited by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Count Mario on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:44 pm

To be fair, the point of a 2 or 3 would be to get multiple kills instead of 1 at a time... Ratchet's 1 really is just fine and pretty easy to counter if you know it well enough. If you're against the confirm, then argue for a nerf on the Suck Cannon/Grab instead.
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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:57 pm

Count Mario wrote:To be fair, the point of a 2 or 3 would be to get multiple kills instead of 1 at a time... Ratchet's 1 really is just fine and pretty easy to counter if you know it well enough. If you're against the confirm, then argue for a nerf on the Suck Cannon/Grab instead.
But lvl1s are easier to get than lvl2s and lvl3s also sometimes if you hit multiple people you'll get the multiple amount of kills kc's are guaranteed unless interference is in involved while with lvl2s(some confirms are involved with them but i'm fine with lvl2 kcs) and lvl3s theres a chance you could mess up and not get any kills at all i've seen plenty of matches where people who would use kc's go over the amount of any lvl2 or lvl3 would get. And your right my gripe was the suck cannon confirm but i don't know how you could nerf it without decreasing the time on it maybe make it into a combo starter rather than hard knockdown?
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Post by Count Mario on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:03 pm

That's the key word though. Sometimes. Compared to a 2 or a 3, it is usually more difficult and tedious to get multiple kills with a 1, which is obviously the point. There's a chance you could fail with any of them, or prefer one over the other even if it's a higher number or not, but generally, that's how the balance between their power is distributed.

And that seems like a decent way to nerf the Suck Cannon, although like the level 1, I'm personally already fine with it.
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Post by lpool1996moh on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:15 pm

removing KC kills one v one period. and they are prety bad ffa your gonna get knocked out of em.

Ratchets level 1 is very punishable. unless confirmed. the best way to plant it is to find a guy whos comnoing in a corner at let him have it.

The roll? jump punish from the air. its how most do it

dan has what he needs. his ap gain comes from absorbing projectiles and his decent combos.

as for that comment...who was that?

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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:18 pm

Count Mario wrote:That's the key word though. Sometimes. Compared to a 2 or a 3, it is usually more difficult and tedious to get multiple kills with a 1, which is obviously the point. There's a chance you could fail with any of them, or prefer one over the other even if it's a higher number or not, but generally, that's how the balance between their power is distributed.

And that seems like a decent way to nerf the Suck Cannon, although like the level 1, I'm personally already fine with it.

There is a higher risk with getting a lvl2 and lvl3 compared to a lvl1 lets say a Raiden who is going to use kc's vs a Drake going for his lvl3 the raiden will most likely win due to him having a insane amount of kills due to the 1 hit required while drake who can get grabbed,die by the raiden or anyone in that match,items depletion, or just not getting enough hits. i do agree that there is more kills with a lvl2 and lvl3 but still your not losing anytime going for a lvl1 i just think Kc's should have to be worked for not 1hit death.




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Post by lpool1996moh on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:25 pm

flaw in your arguement. i played ranked today as Zeus and went exclusively for 3s. and won. like 80% of the time
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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:36 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:flaw in your arguement. i played ranked today as Zeus and went exclusively for 3s. and won. like 80% of the time

Zeus can stay in the air for a long time avoiding grabs and his lvl3 is good in any stage due to him creating a environment of his own. but knowing online i'm sure no one even bothered to grab what match was it ffa or 2v2?

Removing KC kills one v one period. and they are prety bad ffa your gonna get knocked out of em.

Ratchets level 1 is very punishable. unless confirmed. the best way to plant it is to find a guy whos comnoing in a corner at let him have it.

The roll? jump punish from the air. its how most do it

dan has what he needs. his ap gain comes from absorbing projectiles and his decent combos.

as for that comment...who was that?
Kc's are good in ffa and 2v2 well depending on the character Ratchet's is horrible in ffa but more reliable in 2v2. But quick or large range 1s like Raiden,E.cole, Tooth are good in both modes and i'm 50/50 on Kat she just isn't a character to use Kc's 24/7 in 2vs2 or FFa due to it being slow and highly interuptable. A guy on the community forums.
here's the link
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/SuperBot-s-response-to-Jak-concerns/td-p/39939511/page/5
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Post by lpool1996moh on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:48 pm

well first thats superbot. so yeah kimda redundant. I main tooth his kc is NOT good in ffa. trust me his 3 is better in all non 1v1 scenarios. what saddends me is thats his main combo startup. raiden and cole yeah pretty much but unless you fire off coles fast you get knocked outta that. Raidens super as a whole as well. people love to stop that thing.

my zeus run though yeah they did grab me on my spells on the ground so i stopped there ones in return.

every play the pokemon metagame? similar concept. stuff that defines the meta is deemed good and broken stuff is banned so kill confirms are our stealth rocks. they define the meta. anything that gets nerfed is deemed broken and was suspected and moved to ubers. stuff thats buffed is bad and needs new toys to be good.

weird analogy but if you understand it it makes sense.
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Post by PerfectCell21 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:08 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:well first thats superbot. so yeah kimda redundant. I main tooth his kc is NOT good in ffa. trust me his 3 is better in all non 1v1 scenarios. what saddends me is thats his main combo startup. raiden and cole yeah pretty much but unless you fire off coles fast you get knocked outta that. Raidens super as a whole as well. people love to stop that thing.

my zeus run though yeah they did grab me on my spells on the ground so i stopped there ones in return.

every play the pokemon metagame? similar concept. stuff that defines the meta is deemed good and broken stuff is banned so kill confirms are our stealth rocks. they define the meta. anything that gets nerfed is deemed broken and was suspected and moved to ubers. stuff thats buffed is bad and needs new toys to be good.

weird analogy but if you understand it it makes sense.
But Seth is still in charge of the balance issues or in it in some way and ssm still refer to him as the guy to go to on twitter i'm sure they look into 1v1 but i'm certain 2v2 and ffa is the main concern due to majority of characters benefitting in those 2 modes and no 1v1 ranked.
@DylanJRiesenman @sethkillian is your man for #PSABR balance questions
And yep his down square is pretty slow it should have more range but if he hits he's going to get the kill i'm starting to see less cole overall so i can agree with you on that. You lost me on the meta thing awesome but i'll just say that kc's should stay but they should require more skill and less 1hit nonsense but since the patch i've rarely encounter them anymore just a few here and there but they don't win as much pre patch. As for dan sure he can get meter off of projectiles but he's still a slow character and his hypers are ehh..... he could use a buff here or there.


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Post by Vytrova on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:23 pm

STOP SAYING EVERYTHING IS OFFICIAL
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Post by MrEpic on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:24 pm

IT IS SUPER OFFICIAL. CHANGE TITLE TO SUPER OFFICIAL.
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