What is the allegiance of each character?

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What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:13 pm

I saw this question on GameFAQs, and it got me curious on what people think, so what do YOU think is everyone's alignment?

Kratos - Chaotic Neutral (evil, but because he sees anyone who doesn't help him directly as nothing more then an obstacle to be destroyed)

Jak and Daxter - Not entirely sure, I'm just gonna go with Neutral Good

Sly Cooper - Chaotic Neutral (he may be heroic, but he's still a (as far as I know) remorseless criminal)

Ratchet - Neutral Good

Clank - Lawful Good (They don't have the same allegiance)

Sackboy - True Neutral

Nathan Drake - Chaotic Neutral

Big Daddy - True Neutral

Col. Radec - Chaotic Evil (he may be "just following orders", but he's still intensely loyal to The Helghast and seems to enjoy his job)

Sweet Tooth - Lawful Evil (he's a serial killer, who basically got off on killing, if he's not Evil, neither was Jeffrey Dahmer)

Evil Cole - Chaotic Evil (he's a sick, twisted, evil ****, but it's driven more from selfishness then "goodness, look at the time, where's my machete?" like Sweet Tooth)

Dante - No idea, I assume Neutral Good or Chaotic Good

Fat Princess - Neutral Good

Cole - Lawful Good

Heihachi - True Neutral (I consider him a villain, but in this case he's just "me, me, me, **** everyone else" rather then being evil because he likes it)

Nariko - No idea, assume Chaotic Good

Parappa - Lawful Good (doesn't seem to have it in him to be anything less, he's a good kid)

Spike - Lawful Good (see Parappa)

Raiden - Not sure, assumed Chaotic Neutral

Sir Dan - Lawful Good (the man's a gutless, putrid coward, but he's a good, moral man and can be truly courageous when he knows he must be)

Toro - Dunno, probably Neutral Good

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Popexplosion2000 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:20 pm

Kratos - Chaotic Neutral

Jak and Daxter - Chaotic Good

Sly Cooper - Chaotic Good

Ratchet - Chaotic Good

Clank - Lawful Good

Sackboy - Neutral Good

Nathan Drake - Chaotic Neutral

Big Daddy - True Neutral

Col. Radec - Chaotic Evil

Sweet Tooth - Chaotic Evil

Evil Cole - Chaotic Evil

Dante - Chaotic Good

Fat Princess - Neutral Good

Cole - Lawful Good

Heihachi - Neutral Evil

Nariko - Chaotic Good

Parappa - Lawful Good

Spike - Lawful Good

Raiden - Chaotic Neutral

Sir Dan - Lawful Good

Toro - True Neutral

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Count Mario on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Personally, I say chaotic good for Jak and Daxter. And do Ratchet & Clank not really have the same allegiance? I thought Ratchet got over the whole "I don't care what happens to the galaxy" phase after the first installment. I'd say Ratchet would be more chaotic good at the very least. And I say Sly is totally chaotic good. I really don't like how people use the stealing as an excuse because he doesn't steal from the helpless or the poor, he takes from the undeserving rich, other ruthless thieves, and villains. He literally mentions that it's the honor code of his family's thieving legacy. He's essentially Robin Hood, but keeps his spoils. And Dante's totally chaotic good. And Raiden, well, I think I'd go with chaotic good, but he could also fit in with being neutral, I guess.

I agree with everything else though and this is just my opinion. Feel free to stick to yours. Wink

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by MrEpic on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:26 pm

Chatioc for Drake? I never played uncharted, and he may be a thief.. But.. Hes drake.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Count Mario on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:29 pm

MrEpic wrote:Chatioc for Drake? I never played uncharted, and he may be a thief.. But.. Hes drake.
The guy uses guns, always has to get involved in escaping some crumbling building, cave, boat, plane, etc. and has to take on a bunch of rival thieves and all that jazz while causing a bunch of explosions and being a witness to some freaky paranormal stuff. I haven't played Uncharted either, but I've seen enough of it to know that chaotic suits him best.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:34 pm

Count Mario wrote:
MrEpic wrote:Chatioc for Drake? I never played uncharted, and he may be a thief.. But.. Hes drake.
The guy uses guns, always has to get involved in escaping some crumbling building, cave, boat, plane, etc. and has to take on a bunch of rival thieves and all that jazz while causing a bunch of explosions and being a witness to some freaky paranormal stuff. I haven't played Uncharted either, but I've seen enough of it to know that chaotic suits him best.

I think you're misinterpreting "Chaotic".

Chaotic, as I've seen it used, generally refers to someone who does good/evil for their own reasons and opinions, rather then "must do the right thing!" or "must do the evil thing!" Which is why I see Ratchet as Chaotic Good and Clank as Lawful Good. Clank is the one who will always do the generally accepted "right thing", as opposed to Ratchet who follows his own moral code, that happens to be heroic.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Count Mario on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Eh, I think that's kind of more of a anti-hero/neutral description of what you described to me, personally. I always interpreted "chaotic" as basically not being afraid of using many destructive or harmful means to succeed while staying good. Bu I get what you're saying and totally agree.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Count Mario wrote:Eh, I think that's kind of more of a anti-hero/neutral description of what you described to me, personally. I always interpreted "chaotic" as basically not being afraid of using many destructive or harmful means to succeed while staying good. Bu I get what you're saying and totally agree.

WARNING: WALL O' TEXT

I can see what you mean, we just differ on the details. For example, if I may compare the Coles:

In inFAMOUS 2, when Kuo is captured by the Militia, Nix and Zeke each had their own plans to break into their base. Zeke wanted to free and arm the captured police force of New Marais to lay siege to it, and Nix wanted to blow it up with a rigged trolley car.

Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "No, that'd kill the other prisoners, we can't do it" even before considering the order the police would help bring to the city. He saw the innocent lives as the most important thing above all else, knowing Zeke's plan was harder and more dangerous.

Evil Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "The blast would kill the Militia, the fire would distract them and freeing cops would be a danger to myself, let's do it." Immediately disregarding the innocent lives of both the prisoners and the cops and actively avoiding the justice the police would bring to the streets, but he knew the blast would cause the most chaos, get them into the base easier and kill the Militia that could've gunned them down, police or no police.

Cole went for the most "right" decision, Evil Cole took the most efficient decision, but for evil reasons.

In my eyes, Cole immediately chose the heroic decision because it was heroic, even though the cutscene clearly showed him wanting to use Nix's plan, and acknowledged fire as an excellent distraction regardless of kharma. Evil Cole chose the more callous decision, not because it was the evil decision, but because it would work and wouldn't hamper his own agenda, thus he did it because it's what he wanted to do.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by spongebob562 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:56 pm

Chaotic's literal definition is:
completely confused or disordered.
Basically a mess. I would think someone who is chaotic is kinda like crazy. Like Jak and Daxter fit that description.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:58 pm

spongebob562 wrote:Chaotic's literal definition is:
completely confused or disordered.
Basically a mess. I would think someone who is chaotic is kinda like crazy. Like Jak and Daxter fit that description.

That IS the literal definition, but not in the context of moral alignment.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by god-of-paradise on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:00 pm

Majora999 wrote:
Count Mario wrote:Eh, I think that's kind of more of a anti-hero/neutral description of what you described to me, personally. I always interpreted "chaotic" as basically not being afraid of using many destructive or harmful means to succeed while staying good. Bu I get what you're saying and totally agree.

WARNING: WALL O' TEXT

I can see what you mean, we just differ on the details. For example, if I may compare the Coles:

In inFAMOUS 2, when Kuo is captured by the Militia, Nix and Zeke each had their own plans to break into their base. Zeke wanted to free and arm the captured police force of New Marais to lay siege to it, and Nix wanted to blow it up with a rigged trolley car.

Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "No, that'd kill the other prisoners, we can't do it" even before considering the order the police would help bring to the city. He saw the innocent lives as the most important thing above all else, knowing Zeke's plan was harder and more dangerous.

Evil Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "The blast would kill the Militia, the fire would distract them and freeing cops would be a danger to myself, let's do it." Immediately disregarding the innocent lives of both the prisoners and the cops and actively avoiding the justice the police would bring to the streets, but he knew the blast would cause the most chaos, get them into the base easier and kill the Militia that could've gunned them down, police or no police.

Cole went for the most "right" decision, Evil Cole took the most efficient decision, but for evil reasons.

In my eyes, Cole immediately chose the heroic decision because it was heroic, even though the cutscene clearly showed him wanting to use Nix's plan, and acknowledged fire as an excellent distraction regardless of kharma. Evil Cole chose the more callous decision, not because it was the evil decision, but because it would work and wouldn't hamper his own agenda, thus he did it because it's what he wanted to do.

Perfect way to describe chaotic good and lawful good. Both ways are with the good intentions of saving kuo but one is a more "spiderman, no innocents must get hurt no matter what the cost" while the other is a "hulk smash route" lol sorry for going all marvel on your analogy.....

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:05 pm

god-of-paradise wrote:
Majora999 wrote:
Count Mario wrote:Eh, I think that's kind of more of a anti-hero/neutral description of what you described to me, personally. I always interpreted "chaotic" as basically not being afraid of using many destructive or harmful means to succeed while staying good. Bu I get what you're saying and totally agree.

WARNING: WALL O' TEXT

I can see what you mean, we just differ on the details. For example, if I may compare the Coles:

In inFAMOUS 2, when Kuo is captured by the Militia, Nix and Zeke each had their own plans to break into their base. Zeke wanted to free and arm the captured police force of New Marais to lay siege to it, and Nix wanted to blow it up with a rigged trolley car.

Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "No, that'd kill the other prisoners, we can't do it" even before considering the order the police would help bring to the city. He saw the innocent lives as the most important thing above all else, knowing Zeke's plan was harder and more dangerous.

Evil Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "The blast would kill the Militia, the fire would distract them and freeing cops would be a danger to myself, let's do it." Immediately disregarding the innocent lives of both the prisoners and the cops and actively avoiding the justice the police would bring to the streets, but he knew the blast would cause the most chaos, get them into the base easier and kill the Militia that could've gunned them down, police or no police.

Cole went for the most "right" decision, Evil Cole took the most efficient decision, but for evil reasons.

In my eyes, Cole immediately chose the heroic decision because it was heroic, even though the cutscene clearly showed him wanting to use Nix's plan, and acknowledged fire as an excellent distraction regardless of kharma. Evil Cole chose the more callous decision, not because it was the evil decision, but because it would work and wouldn't hamper his own agenda, thus he did it because it's what he wanted to do.

Perfect way to describe chaotic good and lawful good. Both ways are with the good intentions of saving kuo but one is a more "spiderman, no innocents must get hurt no matter what the cost" while the other is a "hulk smash route" lol sorry for going all marvel on your analogy.....

No, no, it's fine, thank you. I'm glad there's a shorter way to put it, I put my all into the analogy, but I admit, it drags a little, lol.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Count Mario on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Majora999 wrote:
Count Mario wrote:Eh, I think that's kind of more of a anti-hero/neutral description of what you described to me, personally. I always interpreted "chaotic" as basically not being afraid of using many destructive or harmful means to succeed while staying good. Bu I get what you're saying and totally agree.

WARNING: WALL O' TEXT

I can see what you mean, we just differ on the details. For example, if I may compare the Coles:

In inFAMOUS 2, when Kuo is captured by the Militia, Nix and Zeke each had their own plans to break into their base. Zeke wanted to free and arm the captured police force of New Marais to lay siege to it, and Nix wanted to blow it up with a rigged trolley car.

Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "No, that'd kill the other prisoners, we can't do it" even before considering the order the police would help bring to the city. He saw the innocent lives as the most important thing above all else, knowing Zeke's plan was harder and more dangerous.

Evil Cole saw Nix's plan and thought "The blast would kill the Militia, the fire would distract them and freeing cops would be a danger to myself, let's do it." Immediately disregarding the innocent lives of both the prisoners and the cops and actively avoiding the justice the police would bring to the streets, but he knew the blast would cause the most chaos, get them into the base easier and kill the Militia that could've gunned them down, police or no police.

Cole went for the most "right" decision, Evil Cole took the most efficient decision, but for evil reasons.

In my eyes, Cole immediately chose the heroic decision because it was heroic, even though the cutscene clearly showed him wanting to use Nix's plan, and acknowledged fire as an excellent distraction regardless of kharma. Evil Cole chose the more callous decision, not because it was the evil decision, but because it would work and wouldn't hamper his own agenda, thus he did it because it's what he wanted to do.
[Only mods are allowed to see this image]

Although I think this one quote that Nightwing said in the animated DC Comics show, Young Justice, can pretty much sum up the basic interpretation chaotic good in one sentence.

"The ends justify the means."

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by DP on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:12 pm

I'd personally throw Ratchet into lawful good at this point. He's come from a whiny, self-centered ass to somebody who willingly comes out of retirement many times just to make sure people are safe. He's willing to let his friend go if it's the right thing to do (after which Clank makes a chaotic decision of his own), as much as he may not like it. Clank gets more slightly more chaotic as the series progresses, and Ratchet gets more lawful, but I wouldn't really say either is bona fide right now. They're both about smack-dab in the middle of the scale.

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Re: What is the allegiance of each character?

Post by Majora999 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 pm

DP27 wrote:I'd personally throw Ratchet into lawful good at this point. He's come from a whiny, self-centered ass to somebody who willingly comes out of retirement many times just to make sure people are safe. He's willing to let his friend go if it's the right thing to do (after which Clank makes a chaotic decision of his own), as much as he may not like it. Clank gets more slightly more chaotic as the series progresses, and Ratchet gets more lawful, but I wouldn't really say either is bona fide right now. They're both about smack-dab in the middle of the scale.

Honestly, that's why I love them so much as characters, replaying the originals via the HD Collection only solidified how much they've grown as characters over the course of the series. But I took that growth into account just to make Ratchet good, if anything he was Chaotic Neutral in the first game, even to the point of only caring about Drek after he goes after his home.

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