So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

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So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:50 am

I spoil key plot elements in this review, so if you held off longer than I did from playing TLoU, turn back now.  You've been warned.




I held off as long as I could from playing The Last of Us purely so I could have a fully objective stance on the game, without hype taking a single smidgeon of thought away from the experience.  For reference, I played it over the past three days, and even before it came out I avoided this game like the plague to do so.  So, effectively for the past three years I've stayed both spoiler and info-free.  So what do I think?

It's not GotY. 

I repeat, it's not GotY.

Now I'm going to tell you to sit down for a minute and calm down before you continue reading, because I'm sure at least two of you are frothing at the mouth lol.

If I had to sum the game up in a word, it'd be predictable.  That's not an inherently bad thing.  From the story to the gameplay, I called every major twist in this game.  And I'll reiterate that not once did I hear a single piece of info about this game.  Nothing was spoiled for me.  I predicted pretty quickly that Ellie was infected, and I knew Tess was, too.  I also knew Sam was as soon as the clickers rushed them in that sniper section, and at that same moment I knew that Henry would kill himself as soon as Sam was dealt with.  Even before that I knew one of them would die, leading to the other's death.  I knew that Joel wouldn't give Ellie up at the end of the game (I'm sure everybody knew that one though).  The only three things I didn't predict beforehand were that: Marlene would reappear at the end; that Naughty Dog would shoehorn Riley into the conversation once at the very end of the game to make way for the DLC (they could've at least foreshadowed it a bit better than that, but ND isn't exactly known for writing stuff outside of the moment); and that Joel would fall onto that pipe at the end of Fall.  Everything else played out exactly as I expected it to.

The gameplay is predictable too.  There were some rare moments where the AI caught me off guard, but most of the time I was able to Metal Gear my way around and choke out every enemy in an area.  There were few sections that were tough to pass, but almost all of those have to do with the subpar gunplay.  Please, if you can, explain to me this: How in the living hell does Joel, a 20-year survivor who has clearly used guns a LOT in that span, have aiming THAT bad?  He sways a tiny pistol like it's a friggin' rocket launcher on his shoulder.  On top of that, point-blank shotgun shells to regular human enemies often, somehow, don't kill.  But then Ellie is able to aim pinpoint throughout the entirety of Winter, AND she tends to one-shot everything.  For reference, my playthrough was on Hard (I would've done Survivalist but it wouldn't let me).  This isn't to say that I didn't like the gameplay; on the contrary, I loved it.  It was rare that I wasn't all tensed up, so the game excels at that (at least on Hard and above).  But I did notice a distinct lack of memorable moments. 

And that explains perfectly well why I don't think this game is GotY material.  I remember distinctly key moments from every episode of TWD game, 2012's winner.  When I hear about Uncharted 2, I always hear about the train segment.  With Uncharted 3, it's the plane segment.  You always hear about the Kratos-Zeus punch at the end of GoW3.  And don't get me started on the BioShock games.  But with TLoU...nothing.  You don't hear about the specific moments that made it worth GotY, you just hear about how "it's great."  The upside-down shooting segment before you meet Bill?  Maybe, but that was done in GTA V too, so that's not exactly unique (though, chronologically-speaking, TLoU obviously did that first, not that it means anything lol).  Boston?  Nothing, really.  The only parts I can see myself thinking about more than a few months from now are the Winter back-and-forth jumps between Joel and Ellie (because that's distinctly movie-like to make sure you DO remember it), and the ending.  The ending isn't exactly memorable for the right reasons, though.  There's nothing wrong with it, either, but it's just...empty.  And not the hollow, empty ending you got at the end of TWD where it brought many to tears - just empty.  It was effectively underplayed to underscore the themes of the game and make sure that Ellie's final word can't be taken in one way or another just to spark fan debate and BE analyzed, I get it, but it doesn't come off that way to me.  It didn't feel crafted like BioShock or Infinite's, and unlike GTA V's "C" ending (which was also somewhat hollow for me when I first played it), there's no other option available to fit the game to your perspective. You just have to take it based on your morals.

I'm one who LOVES to analyze games - I believe Mass Effect 3's ending is the most successful troll in gaming, having built up three games to piss off the entire world specifically to show you the key themes of the series - but I frankly, and honestly, don't see it here.  I see a damn good relationship between Joel and Ellie; marvelous job on that front.  But outside of that I see another one of Naughty Dog's pseudo-free linear adventures that succeeds on a massive scale only because it draws in the movie-goers hiding inside most gamers.  Sort of like those Oscar or Emmy winners that just keep winning because of legacy, TLoU wins because Naughty Dog has conquered the minds of gamers and rolled the world up into its hype ball.  Similar to Bethesda's RPGs that win every time they release because...well...they just do.  (And that's coming from a Bethsoft fan.)

Now, that's not to say TLoU is bad.  I'd still put it right up there with the other two 2013 GotY nominees.  Where, exactly, I don't know yet; I think a second playthrough will answer that for me.  For now it's neck and neck with Infinite for second, because Infinite's perfectly-crafted (note the phrase "perfectly-crafted," not "perfect" - big difference) story and constant foreshadowing made a second playthrough more than worth going through the linear adventure twice.  If TLoU can show me something new or highlight something about the game I absolutely love, then it'll take second; right now, the gameplay and story share equal footing in my opinion, and neither excel enough to make me see past the flaws and put it above GTA. 

GTA is more open than both, longer-lasting than both, (generally) better crafted than both, and while many people don't see this aspect, has character interaction and story that CAN rival both.  I say CAN, because the theming of the old guns bringing up the new kid and the constant satire of masculinity in modern culture is played so damn well that I could go into hefty detail about how every single music track in the game matches perfectly with the problems the game's highlighting.  Infinite's theme of American exceptionalism, its attack on religion, and its expansion of the illusion of choice likely surpass GTA, though.  TLoU's themes?  That you can't trust anyone (already done before in several games).  That's pretty much it.  I've looked heavily through the internet for other interpretations, and the things I found tend to be different ways of saying the same thing.  They all go on about how you can see Joel's final choice as selfish or heroic, and whether or not you believe in utilitarian thought or if you prefer keeping everyone's rights even if it means that others may suffer in the long run.  I've written a lengthy thesis paper about themes in games, and Infinite was right there in it.  (GTA was not, because it wasn't out at the time I wrote it, and neither was TLoU, which brings me to my point.)  I would like to do a video for DIDOG analyzing GTA's all-encompassing level of satire of American culture, and show how every little bit of the game plays to the intended themes.  I can't see a way to do that with this game.  It's JUST a story to follow.  That's not a bad thing!  But when even the most casual-friendly of games (GTA) can maintain more depth than your game in practically every way, I can't give you the nod for GotY, let alone Game of the Generation.  Perhaps if this game had come out before TWD's game did, I would feel differently about it, but it's been done before.

I'll remember much more about GTA V much longer than I will TLoU.  I believe the same goes for Infinite.  I can remember about as much of Uncharted 1 than I can of TLoU, and I beat one not an hour ago (I've spent a while writing this lol), and the other several months ago.  I'll always remember Ellie (and probably Joel), because characters that good are hard to come by.  "The game is great" is a perfect way to describe the game.  But, just like everybody else, that's all I can really say.  The game is JUST great.  Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by BigBox on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:43 am

I would say that The Last of Us is a masterpiece.  GTA is fun, but definitely not on the same level as The Last of Us in terms of quality.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:41 pm

How, exactly? Graphically, they're on the same level; animation-wise, GTA wins hands-down (TLoU only has one animation per move for practically everything - I've used the same shiv, ladder, and choking animation for the entire game). Polish probably goes to TLoU, but that makes sense for an exclusive game (though there are several glaring issues that take away with its polish). GTA's multiplayer still has at least a million unique users per week, and I doubt TLoU's hit that outside of launch work. AND Rockstar managed to pull all this off on two platforms, which is at least a 50% increase in workload. Gameplay-wise, GTA is more polished than the shoddy gunplay that you deal with for 70% of the game, and has at least a dozen more mechanics to take into account besides gunplay, melee, and stealth. And which one will last longer in fans' minds? That goes to how long it's been played after launch, which brings me back to the multiplayer numbers. 

Masterpieces don't tend to have flaws, and your response pretty much goes back to my point of people liking it without knowing why.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by BladedgeX on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:39 pm

I don't think GTAV is all that great either. The players are assholes (seems to be the norm in most online games), the create a character is terrible, the aiming requires no skill (dat auto-aim), spawning in death match is terrible, the cops while aggressive can be exploited and... they ram tanks kamikaze style (wut? That's some realism), the controls for planes are confusing and inferior to Saint's Row's, there is A LOT of unused space in the country side outside of boring exploration, and Rockstar is always promising heists and they just keep delaying. Just stop Rockstar. Just do your thing and if people ask when heists come out just tell them to "fuck off we're working on it" in a nice way.

I really like the single player mode in GTAV. That alone I can deal. But online is so frustrating and unfair when you give everyone the ability to auto-aim players and head shot them like that.

Basically, I'm almost getting that Skyrim syndrome, where I first enjoyed the game but then at a certain point just don't want to touch it ever again. I'm almost at that point with GTAV in terms of not enjoying the online mode. Or maybe I'm just sick of shooting games and need a break from the genre.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:50 pm

Join free-aim lobbies. I hated auto aim in IV and that immediately fixes the issue. The players on 360 aren't that bad most of the time, so maybe that's more of a PS3 thing. I can agree with the plane flying because I'm so used to Battlefield's lol. I've never even seen a cop with a tank in my experience (cop AI and military AI are much different, I've noticed), and Rockstar only delayed heists once - from Spring until "ASAP." Before that they pretty much did exactly as you said. 

Even looking at GTA V and NOT Online (as I did when I voted it GotY last year having never played Online), I still think it's a better game in almost every way.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by BladedgeX on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:15 pm

Cops will ram into anything in GTA V including Tanks. I don't mind if they do this with automobiles and shit. Problem is, is that ramming over cars with a tank is a bad idea as it also damages your tank. So any car that happens to ram into you will explode on contact and that is what all the cops do.

And free-aim lobby? Oh boy, I can finally have fun now.

Btw, I still enjoy the single player campaign as I killed many hookers in my time in the fast lane. It's just these online modes are not all that fun. I rather just dick around in the city where all the fun is at.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:21 pm

Oh, ram INTO tanks lol. I thought you meant the cops had tanks. Yeah they'll ram tanks, most likely. I wouldn't know since I don't use tanks (I've built up my money slowly since I play casually and don't use the glitches). The modes aren't bad; the content creator is awful, though. You need a group of friends to mess around with the modes, but playing muskets only no HUD is one of the most fun experiences I've had in multiplayer lol.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by BladedgeX on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:41 pm

A friend of mine plays GTA V a lot. So much that he's pretty much set financially while I'm there spending all my money on sticky bombs. He mostly plays by himself and with randoms and he has told me that you can get even more money by yourself.

As for activities, we usually ignore these modes and just get a bus and/or truck and block traffic. Throw a sticky or grenade and be amazed. And once we actually play a mode, the only modes we play are Survival, racing, and... trafficking drugs? That is all we play since Parachuting is... parachuting...

Also, I find Simeon to be the most useless piece of shit I have ever been acquaintance within a video game. I wish I can steal a car without getting a 2 star warning automatically when I'm in a pinch.

In anycase, I'm getting off-topic with this. I'll just hop on out of here.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:00 pm

So I'm curious what others here think. I've talked to more people about it, and I've still only heard "it's good because it's good." Pirate is borrowing it right now so I know he'll chime in soon, but I'm curious what lpool and toonz think; I know both of you guys love the game lol, so lemme hear why.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by lpool1996moh on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:31 pm

well i'm playing through it now, (FINALLY!) as much as i love what i've played through with my friends its my first personal playthrough. and withing the first chapter (Not the prologue) Joel caught on a ledge and danced like a chicken...my expectations were cut immensely. 

meh, in my opinion, whether or not this is the GoTY depends on what you look for in a game. from a gameplay standpoint, it could be GTA, or maybe a different game (From last year, in my opinion, it would be Metal Gear Rising, i love that game so much), from a technical stand point it could be either GTA and TLoU, GTA because of its map size while being relatively lively, or the last of us for looking that good on very outdated hardware. 

is TLoU GoTY? well when i defended it last year, i was just arguing with the complaints with the gameplay, which may just fit the atmosphere. i will say everything in the game is expertly designed to fit that. its a great piece of atmospheric media. 

but its not fun. at least not as far as i've gotten. 

its stressful, its nervrecking, its annoying and it makes my Ps3's fan REALLY loud (Unfair but it hampers my enjoyment) but enjoyable? no! 

its possible to do both, so thats not the issue. I point out Shadow of The Colossus. its also an Atmospheric masterpiece. everything in that game is designed around building up to a boss fight, which is then immensely enjoyable! that game hits the same points as the last of us in different ways i feel, without...basically sucking in the gameplay environment. i mean...its at times a generic...really...really bad TPS. at times its a decent but only above average stealth game, at times its a horror game, and it doesn't do any job right! as a package its an amazing atmospheric piece, and thus far it has a decent story with great characters...but i may retract my GoTY assessment

TL;DR: Hype train wore off, game sucks.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by dragonfire111 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:21 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:(From last year, in my opinion, it would be Metal Gear Rising, i love that game so much)
yes YES YES god that game was freaking amazing either that or The Wonderful 101 were my GOTY last year because of how freaking awesome they were (wonderful 101 was tough as nails though).
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by lpool1996moh on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:31 pm

It was SOOOOO fun! seriously! Awesome Soundtrack, great gameplay... it was a bit short though. but yeah, it would be my 2013 game of the year. that or X/Y, but i'm just too much of a pokenerd so that shouldn't count.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:36 pm

I really need to pick up Revengeance. I liked the demo, and I know I'll love the game. I'll probably pick it up cheap once I analyze my poorness after this holiday season lol. I'm sure Bayo1 and 2 will fill any hack and slash gap I may have. 

But yeah, it's good to see I'm not the only one who doesn't get the hype. Even a week or so later I'm struggling to remember much noteworthy about my experience (outside of Winter and a few setpieces). A second playthrough MIGHT fix that, but going by every response I've had when questioning this game, maybe not - nobody else seems to remember much either lol. Maybe that's why I only get vague responses in favor of it.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by lpool1996moh on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:53 pm

i really can't put into words how good Revengance is. its not a very good Metal Gear Game, but judged on its own merits its just as good as them if that makes sense. 

well i still have to finish it. but from a game design standpoint....its not good. from a overall design standpoint, like for storytelling and atmosphere, its a masterpiece. so it just depends on what you want out of a game.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:03 pm

I wouldn't call the story masterpiece worthy, because it's very, VERY generic apocalypse on many fronts. The characters (i.e. Joel, Ellie, and Nolan North) are great, and the world is at times marvelous. But the story itself, no. 

I do like the gameplay enough to justify it being a game at all. I prefer the gameplay to the story, honestly, because the story is practically made for casuals to play and say "OMG GotY GotG GOAT." It's nothing spectacular (I love the seamless cover system though), but it aids the atmosphere, which is the only real shining point of the game.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by dragonfire111 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:15 pm

get rising on steam it comes with the dlc for free i loved sams dlc and bladewolf has an awesome boss.
also monsoon is by far the games best boss
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by lpool1996moh on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:20 pm

how can you do apocalypse differently? characters is pretty much the only way to differentiate an apocalyptic story from the others is through character development. i will say the concept and goals and shit...horribly generic. seriously a cure? really? want to promote the hopelessness of the situation and your goal is to use the little girl to provide a cure? really?

i wouldn't say that dragon. they are honestly all equal in my opinion. The ray was a great set piece, Mistral was the fastest pace, Monsoon has like a proper ninja fight (And i don't mean Naruto ninjas i mean proper ninjas...at least till the end with the magnet trash ball of death) Sundowner was tactical, Sam was an epic duel, the excelsus was just awesome with its kill method and Armstrong...oh my god. he doesn't die!
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by Piratemankelly on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:39 pm

So far, my opinion of TLOU is better than neutral, I suppose. 

I on't think it's necessarily a fantastic game. The way I described it to MD (the guy that does out Youtube channel with me an DP) was "solid PS3 launch title or a great PS2 gem."

The gameplay is meh. If they took out some of he clunk and implemented better survival elements, the gameplay could've been really good. At the very least, I can vouche for saying the game is indee not just a movie.

However, I feel like a film (or rather, films) would've been a better medium for it. When you actually do gameplay segments, it kind of break immersion a little. It's definitely a hallway sort of game, but the open-er areas you explore are generally filled with nothing, with every supply being kinda' bunched together. It feels like a 3rd person Fallout 3 sometimes.

Fighting humans is much more enjoyable than fighting zambies. Luckily, for a Zombie game, there aren't that that many encounters with them. I hate Bloaters. Freaking ammo hogs. Which is what most of the survival element is-- safe bullets and stuff for a big, mandatory action encounter.


As for the story, liek DP said, predictable. The characters are good, but it doesn't have great overarching stuff. Like, I like simple stuff, but for being such a "masterpiece," it's pretty barebones. You on't have any real themes besides "don't trust anyone," "family is who you make it," and "don't give up ever."

The situations you get put in aren't realistic. Which I'm fine with. But mixing a realistic background and tone with unrealistic gameplay breaks immersion a bit. "OH yeah, army of people that I kill by myself. Open door, guy has me by chokehold... again."

Whenever an area is done, I can say it's pretty much a 50/50 I'll get attacked as soon as I go to the next area.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by DP on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:46 pm

For collection's sake I'll likely get the PS3 version and just buy the DLC. Costs more, yeah, but it makes me feel better inside lol.


And lpool, that's exactly what I meant actually. Walking Dead at least made it interesting by doing it like 70 comics in (and 4.5 seasons in) and
Spoiler:
making it a hoax

As far as the game goes, Uncharted effect is in full swing (I must have killed 300 people throughout the game), which I can accept if they'd have added other animations for everything (THAT breaks my immersion more than the killing 300 people part lol).
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by dragonfire111 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:58 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:how can you do apocalypse differently? characters is pretty much the only way to differentiate an apocalyptic story from the others is through character development. i will say the concept and goals and shit...horribly generic. seriously a cure? really? want to promote the hopelessness of the situation and your goal is to use the little girl to provide a cure? really?

i wouldn't say that dragon. they are honestly all equal in my opinion. The ray was a great set piece, Mistral was the fastest pace, Monsoon has like a proper ninja fight (And i don't mean Naruto ninjas i mean proper ninjas...at least till the end with the magnet trash ball of death) Sundowner was tactical, Sam was an epic duel, the excelsus was just awesome with its kill method and Armstrong...oh my god. he doesn't die!
agreed with all of those bosses but sundowner hes so easy compared to the rest, for some reason they gave so little health and made it easy to juggle him pity too he has an epic theme

as for TLOU when i played that game i ended up with so much dang ammo near the end because i was worried about conserving it which shouldn't be able to be done so easily in a survival horror game. as for the story yeah it was predictable i wont say it was bad but it wasnt anything revolutionary, if you want good stories play some of the telltale games they are pros at it (i loved wolf among us).
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by Piratemankelly on Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Just finished TLOU.

That ending was bullshit.
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Re: So I played TLoU *SPOILERS*

Post by dragonfire111 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:31 pm

yes it was, it wasnt ME3 level bullshit but it was bullshit
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