8th Generation General Discussion

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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:15 pm

You ignored half of the games there, including the only modern FPS series to ever put up a fight against CoD. 

And again, those are JUST the games that appeal to the same crowd as CoD, and I didn't even touch the racing or sports games that also draw them in. There are easily twenty AAA games in the fall that can draw away from CoD; one alone does not need to compete for CoD to lose sales. And I'm intentionally avoiding superhits like The Sims 4 that aren't going to necessarily detract from CoD's sales. 

You're still avoiding the fact that your logic is comimng apart in front of everyone. You directly compared the audiences of CoD (teens and young adults) to the Nintendo fanbase (everyone else, with some overlap); then you stated that no game would compete with CoD as if that was your initial point; then you shifted to one game, ignoring the other feasible competitors; and all the while you're still arguing that Nintendo is doomed despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. What's next, the Vita is gonna be the best-selling console of 2014? 

Perhaps you should cut away while you still can without making a total fool of yourself. At this point, your anti-Nintendo comments are getting desperate.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by dragonfire111 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:08 pm

he hasnt made a fool of himself yet? i thought he already did
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:41 am

The logic is very simple, Mario Kart 8 will die after launch week.  Call of Duty will dominate winter/holiday again if Destiny doesn't oppose it heavily.  I ignored the rest, because Call of Duty has tangled with 'heavy hitters' of the caliber before and still was the number one selling game of the year.  The only competition Call of Duty will have in Winter/holiday is, Destiny.  Nothing else.  I wouldn't even consider Uncharted competition for Call of Duty sells.  Because, even Uncharted 3 tangled with CoD and lost.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:54 am

Mario Kart Wii was consistently in the weekly top ten selling games for years after it launched. You have no backing for your statements against 8. Yes, on a sales basis CoD "has no competition," but nobody except Battlefield and Halo 4 have even tried competing in that sense; there's no point on stating that CoD will be number one because that will be the case for probably another year or two while the plateau finalizes and we see it start to drop. 

Nobody was arguing CoD wouldn't be number one; you're still trying to make the point that MK8 has to directly face CoD, despite there being a big difference in the fanbases of each. CoD, given, IS the only other franchise that runs for more than $40 for at least a year, but that is no reason to consider them comparable. CoD doesn't nearly have the game-to-game legs of a Mario game; it's very front-heavy, just as GTA was. Nintendo gains most of its sales on the back-end, and has done so since the Wii (if not sooner, really). This is actually the first fast launch they've had SINCE the Wii console itself. All signs in video game economics and Mario Kart/Nintendo history point towards a consistent set of weekly sales for a while. I'm not talking 30 million, not at all. But we should see it beat 5 million in its lifetime, probably 3 by the end of the year. 

But here I am using logic against you again. I should really stop doing that, it never works to make you even slightly less vehemently anti-Nintendo.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:07 am

The Wii U isn't the Wii, I would recommend you stop comparing them.  Also, there has only been one weekly chart, which people have reported the same one so far.  There has been no consistency yet since there's only one.  I expect the Wii U to be a barren wasteland in winter/holiday season.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:43 am

A family of consoles that share many features vs. comparing two completely different genres. I don't think you should be the one recommending anything here lol


And if you truly believe the most beloved fighting game series in gaming is going to do nothing for the U this fall, you have proved yet again that you know nothing about how the industry works. 


Let's give that a test, actually. Which home console do you think is controlling Japan on a week to week basis? And why?
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:50 pm

It doesn't matter what genre it is, competition is competition and the market is going to be crushed under the weight of Destiny and Call of Duty.  Most of the more adult gamer's are gonna be buying Destiny and the younger ones buy Call of Duty.  Rest In Peace Wii U.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:57 pm

Because such failures like Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, et alia don't prove that "crushing" wrong year after year. 

Kudos for avoiding the rest of my comment btw.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:29 pm

Assassin's Creed and Uncharted don't matter.  AC isn't the seller it used to be, and Uncharted is no competition for CoD, or Destiny.  However, Uncharted really doesn't matter at all because it isn't coming out until 2015.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by dragonfire111 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:21 pm

and if sony was in this situation youd be full on sony defense force about it heck if i remember correctly son ny still hasnt completely recovered from their ps3 days.
Nintendo will be fine and you will still refuse to admit your wrong no matter what happens. mario kart increased sales in the UK by 666% even when taking into account diminishing returns smash 4 is the bigger game and more widely sought after by both casuals and competitive's. It will definitely move systems for nintendo.


Last edited by dragonfire111 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:43 pm

As much as the last sentence made me smile, Dragon, I can't condone that much hostility. That's prtially on me for bringing some vitriol into the debate. But let's drop that here, even if the debate does continue.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by dragonfire111 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:53 pm

i removed it i saw it in a movie a while back and thought it was funny, so i referenced it i suppose it is a bit crass though hahaha.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:52 pm

Appreciated. /Offtopic

Apparently the PS4 sells at a profit now. That's a quick turnaround from selling at a loss. Which makes it very possible (but definitely not likely) that Sony COULD announce a price drop to further expand control of the (non-Japanese) market. More likely, they just found a way to cheapen their parts and they'll maintain the price and use a bundle to push the Vita out of the coffin.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by dragonfire111 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:06 pm

another thing they could do with the vita that might help is reducing the price of the completely ridiculous memory cards.
hell my terabyte HDD's were cheaper
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:44 pm

That's always how they got people. Though in related news, Amazon listed a $560 bundle of exactly what I predicted. I expected them to make it a bit more enticing than $560 tHough.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:37 pm

As expected, Mario Kart 8 boasts major sells of over 1 million units, but doesn't sell enough Wii U's to be called a "system seller."  The Wii U system sells only increase to 187,028 units falling second place to the PS4's 201,630 units.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:33 am

Your definition of "system seller" is incredibly short-sighted. 200K units in a is insane for the U, and almost a match to THE FASTEST SELLING HOME CONSOLE OF ALL TIME last week. It tripled it in Japan. That's insane. 

The kicker? MK8 launched a day before those numbers were counted. So yeah. A single game boosted hardware by 3% in a single day. 

Get over yourself and either give it up or hold off a few weeks to see how it plays out for more than one day.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:53 am

It is good, but I'm looking at the margins and the reality of it.  As I predicted, Mario Kart 8 sold best among people who owned the Wii U already.  While the Wii U was still no competition for a console that supposedly "has no games yet."  The software margins are great, but the hardware margins between software sold and hardware sold between the Wii U and Mario Kart 8 are terrible.  The game didn't bring in the new group of gamer's it was supposed to and by week's end, it will be dead.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:03 pm

Stop talking out of your ass. Please. You're not looking st reality, you're looking at your twisted version of everything where selling more units in a week than the Xbox One did last month is bad. How is nearly equal hardware sales to the PS4 from a day of a game's launch "not competition?" Here's perspective: Titanfall added 300,000 more Xbox Ones for the entire month of March. Mario Kart 8 did similar for the U in a day. Titanfall sold 500K copies launch week, and is at nearly million now. MK8 sold more than double that launch, with a Friday launch. MK8 is nearly matching the PS4's hailed system seller (Second Son) in sales after a weekend. 

The only reason we don't see a number one week for the Wii U (besides that whole "MK8 was only out for a day" thing) is because many people bought PS4s for Watch_Dogs. And comparably, applying your logic to that game, Watch_Dogs is less successful because it sold fewer hardware units per software unit. Please, deny that so you can go directly back on your own broken logic.

We have a weekend's worth of numbers for MK8 and what is very technically a week's worth for the U ("very technically" because the MK8 bundle that helped do that, as well as most of the hardware sales, clearly did not begin until Friday), and it still put up a fight against the first "true" next-gen game on every platform in a launch battle.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:23 pm

To the contrary of your argument, Watch Dogs is a multipatform game and isn't expected to save a console.  While Mario Kart 8 is, the sold successfully, but in failed to catapult the Wii U.  If anyone has a way of twisting things around, it's you.  The reality is that Mario Kart 8 failed to catapult the Wii U.  There may be a slight profit margin, but it still isn't the console destination of gamers.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:42 pm

Somebody give me a facepalm gif.

I gave you hard numbers, and you're still too dense to look beyond your fanboyism here. Read this out loud so it penetrates your thick skull through your earholes:
WE HAVE ONE DAY OF NUMBERS. YOU CANNOT DECLARE FAILURE FROM ONE DAY.

It's not even like I'm saying it's definitely saved the U. I'm saying that, after one day, it competed handily with the most desired game of E3 2012 and 2013. I'm saying that, after one day, it's matched Second Son's LTD sales, and performed comparably to Titanfall in pushing hardware. I'm saying, it's been ONE DAY. Give me statistics to back your "it'll be dead next week," and maybe you'd have an argument here. But you haven't done that, you've stated roundabout pieces of information that have little to do with the subject at hand. (It doesn't matter WHAT WD is meant to be, it has been hyped for two years now and it sold a hundred thousand extra PS4s. The fact that MK8 sold at all in the face of WD is a statement of how desired the former is.) You're calling a 500% weekly hardware spike from one game in one day a failure. If you know you can't address most of what I say each time you comment, don't comment. Your ego will thank you for it in the long run. 

That's the end of the discussion until we have further data to go by. There's no point in you arguing purely on a hunch for the sake of hearing your own voice until the current week's numbers come in. Carrying this on any further will result in a throw, and that goes for any other commenter as well. Any other 8th generation discussion is welcomed, however.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by dragonfire111 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:08 pm

DP wrote:Somebody give me a facepalm gif.
here you go


also it doesnt matter what you say he will probably just keep repeating the same thing no matter how many times you refute it.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by DP on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:46 am

Hohshit

This month's VGchartz gap charts are in. The PS4 is at nearly DOUBLE the Xbox One's numbers. 8 million to 4.5 million. That said, compared to the original Wii it's neck and neck. The Wii should overtake the PS4's comparable sales numbers next month. (To think Nintendo held back on Wiis until they were no longer selling at a loss! I can only imagine how insane the market would've been had they just gone all-out. But that's neither here nor there.)

I'm curious how much the Xbox One Better Without Kinect model will change the battle. It's reportedly selling like hotcakes right now so it may be a mostly even race from here on out.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by Chaosdreams on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:56 am

DP wrote:Hohshit

This month's VGchartz gap charts are in. The PS4 is at nearly DOUBLE the Xbox One's numbers. 8 million to 4.5 million. That said, compared to the original Wii it's neck and neck. The Wii should overtake the PS4's comparable sales numbers next month. (To think Nintendo held back on Wiis until they were no longer selling at a loss! I can only imagine how insane the market would've been had they just gone all-out. But that's neither here nor there.)

I'm curious how much the Xbox One Better Without Kinect model will change the battle. It's reportedly selling like hotcakes right now so it may be a mostly even race from here on out.

Yup, Kinect should have never been forced to begin with, well, understandably I see why they did so, but for the gamer if it doesn't look like an absolute necessity, like a controller, it's irritating to pay more to own it.

As for Sony, them being in the lead is good, they deserve it, however, they need to keep showing why they ought to be with games. Their bundle with Destiny is smart, new color, new game, it'll bring a few people in. I actually would buy it, if I hadn't already. It's the sort of deal I would jump on.
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Re: 8th Generation General Discussion

Post by BigBox on Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:02 am

Nintendo won't be able to beat Sony in the sells.  Mario Kart 8 didn't move enough sells to do that, and the PS4 is going to be booming win the holiday season.  The Wii U will have some number, but none to match Sony's.
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