Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

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Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:14 pm

As most of you know, I don't like that that play like Amnesia.  For three simple reason.  Lack of gaming mechanic depth, no physics engine and repetitive.  So, what makes games like The Evil Within more appealing?  Obviously, mechanical depth, physics engine and they aren't repetitive.  However this only covers games that have all of these and still manage to scare you.  To play a game in this genre and to have the ability to fight back and still feel helpless is far more scary than repeatedly running from instant death.  The idea of knowing you can fight back against your attacker and still feel helpless is what drives these games.  With absolute certainty I can say that there is no better scare in a, Survival Horror game than when they can accomplish that goal.  The fear at the point becomes much more believable since chances are you going to fight back somehow in real life.  As opposed to running around doing nothing gives a feeling that the player is ripped out of their body and playing as a, ghost.  Someone that's basically already dead because of the lack of depth games like, Amnesia offer.  Although, for people that do get scared while playing games have to understand at some point it's a very cheap scare.  A kind of scare that has no lasting, or fundamental value because it isn't believable.  As to where if you fight back and still feel pushed into a corner is saying a lot more than, "I made scary game and you can't fight back.  Try not to pee yourself, this big guy chases you around."  The first questions should be, "really?  Taking the idea of, Resident Evil 3: Nemesis and removing all of its charm?"  Although, Clock Tower made the idea of running and running and running popular.  Resident Evil 3 did what Clock Tower didn't, it made the fear of being chased by an explainable being believable.

Thoughts and opinions below.  Do you like believable and genuine scares?  Or, do you just like riding roller coasters and the cheap thrill is good enough for you?
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Pyro-Hem on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:51 pm

Amnesia is actually known for being THE PHYSICS PUZZLE GAME. So, yeah… I'm pretty sure it had a physics engine. In fact, a game without one that's in a 3D space wouldn't even look like a game if it didn't have a physics engine, but instead a bunch of shit mashed together, staying in one spot and only one spot… 

I will say, Amnesia does get repetitive after a while, as you don't do much but explore, run, hide, etc. In fact, Amnesia never even scared me at all. Neither does Resident Evil. In fact, the only scares I get out of those games are jump scares, which are nowadays overused and extremely cheap scares. The only games where I've been legitly scared are the first 3 Silent Hill Games and the first Dead Space. 

Silent Hill scared me just because of it's "What the fuck is that?!" factor. It would make me not want to continue for fear of seeing something more horrible. That and the fact that supplies were always very little, therefore fighting monsters was a good and bad idea. 

Dead Space had the same thing going for it. You can indeed fight back, but after a while that starts to get challenging to do as more and more types of those Necromorphs show up. Amazing atmosphere as well, making it creep you out wherever you go. With the second installment, I feel they tried to hard to scare you because the scares were very predictable. With the third game… Well, we all know what happened there…

Of course, horror games shouldn't end up being Resident Evil 5 & 6, with random-ass, lame-ass, repetitive-ass action every step of the way. There should be a small balance between the action and horror elements, one in which more horror is better than having more action. If you can fight back, don't give the player a fucking Godlike weapon to mow shit down, give them something weak and limited. That way they're forced to make decisions on how and when to use it. Making the player panic about the whole thing is good.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:03 pm

Well, to sum up everything you said. I used, The Evil Within for an example for a reason. A game that looks very scary and has elements of action. Other then the physics engine, I don't consider scripted actions as physics. Things like ragdoll is what makes a real physics engine.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by god-of-paradise on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:49 am

Does anyone know any really good horror games (aside from dead space, original resident evils, silent hill) that aren't outdated?

For halloween.. I decided to play some horror games I have never gotten the chance to play (Doom 3 and Condemned 2) and wow... with headphones on and the lights out. My heart was pounding in the end of it. What are some other good ones?
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Pyro-Hem on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:25 pm

The first Condemned game is one of my personal favorites, it's story doesn't… Uh… Change as drastically as it did in the sequel. 

After watching Two Best Friends, there was a horror game on the DS that is now actually getting ported over to the PC in HD. Dementium 2 is the name, I believe. Looks like one of the most interesting of the games they've played on the Shitstorm, though it looks and feels like it was made as a 90s horror game. Still, sure is worth a look:


The only newer game that I give real props to, right now, is Outlast. Not my cup of tea, as I don't get scared easily from it, but definitely good enough to take a look at, if you haven't already. Plus (Not a pun), it will be free on PS+ when the PS4 comes out, which is a little more than 2 weeks away, if you're willing to wait for it.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:48 pm

I can't give any real props to games like, Outlast. Games like that rely on cheap scares by pretty much making your character a plank of wood. In a game where you're suppose to be the character, I feel alienated due to the lack of even the slightest bit of actions I would take in that real situation.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Pyro-Hem on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:35 pm

But, like you asked in the OP, there are some people who only like the cheap scares. 

It's all on preference.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by lpool1996moh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:14 pm

Nit pick......Amnesia. it really does have a physics engine. a good one at that. especially given its budget. they way you can stack things so freeform in that game is rather complex. annoying at times but complex. its also relatively glitch free, its a decent game from a tech

Every Game pretty much has a physics engine, at least any real time game does. other wise things would float around like Mario Galaxy with a jump cheat on. only exceptions would be RPG games like pokemon or early FF games mainly sprite based over models where they had movement permissions. even sprite based platformers work on physics for jump height and stuff, pretty much everything with models does as well. 

S/H itself.........not a fan. i like atmospheric games like Bioshock or TLoU, creepy as they are, often frightening. but tbh i never saw the appeal of horror games. i know the appeal of horror movies is how bad they are. games don't have that.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by this_is_marko on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:29 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:Nit pick......Amnesia. it really does have a physics engine. a good one at that. especially given its budget. they way you can stack things so freeform in that game is rather complex. annoying at times but complex. its also relatively glitch free, its a decent game from a tech

Every Game pretty much has a physics engine, at least any real time game does. other wise things would float around like Mario Galaxy with a jump cheat on. only exceptions would be RPG games like pokemon or early FF games mainly sprite based over models where they had movement permissions. even sprite based platformers work on physics for jump height and stuff, pretty much everything with models does as well. 

S/H itself.........not a fan. i like atmospheric games like Bioshock or TLoU, creepy as they are, often frightening. but tbh i never saw the appeal of horror games. i know the appeal of horror movies is how bad they are. games don't have that.
I've always found that the biggest appeal of them is to play them with friends.  One time I had the MMM Comics guys over and we played we plugged my laptop into the big screen and played slender (yes i know. anaconda will have something to say about it being a cheap scare) with the lights off at like 2 in the morning.  It was hysterical watching everyone jump (especially the person who's turn it was to play it).  That's my experience with them
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:02 pm

lpool1996moh wrote:Nit pick......Amnesia. it really does have a physics engine. 
No it doesn't, Amnesia has no physics.  Just set pieces and scripted actions/events, this is physics.





@Pyro: That is true.

Edit: I wish GTA V had car physics like that.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by DP on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:13 pm

Physics engines are not as common as you guys think. Anaconda is right that Amnesia does not have a real physics engine. That doesn't mean that there are no physics in the game. GTA III-SA didn't use any physics engines, and no game really did until 7th Gen besides technically Sonic's 2D games. There were physics, and physics-based functions, but there was not often an actual physics engine so much as some physics built in-house.

That all said, Amnesia DID have the latter in abundance, from what I could tell. And a physics engine should not in any way determine the quality of an experience by itself. Unless we're talking Sonic 06, which is the most unparalleled survival/horror experience out there ironically.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Neß on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:25 pm

Sonic 06 is pretty scary...
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by lpool1996moh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:19 pm

it actually does use a physics engine called Newton Game Dynamics in the HPL/HPL2 Engine with a custom friction add on (Unless my research is wrong or i'm misreading it). and it makes sense that it does. i mean you can stack boxes and stuff fairly realistically for puzzles or to form barricades in a useless attempt to stop monsters and make you feel safe which never work, even the way the doors open requires simulation of the law of the lever. of course there are scripted events which some of use seem to not enjoy but personally i prefer Scripted events to QTEs anyday. and most of it is not scripted so its fine. 

Thats said we can all agree Sonic 06 is the epitome of survival horror. as in the survival of the player through the horror that is this game. they may say otherwise but this is why Game Grumps no longer has Jon. he couldn't take it.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:33 pm

That isn't really physics, that's just creating an interactive set piece which doesn't require physics. The fact that the monster can't be phased by anything and shows no interaction with the environment is proof there isn't physics. In the real world, yes that is a pure example of physics but in a video game development setting. It's just as common as the camera and not considered physics because it has no real interaction. I mean, even I can sit done with one other guy and make a completely game similar to Amnesia in two, or three weeks. Because, we don't have worry about implementing physics. It's as simple as laying down set pieces and then coding them so the player can interact with them, but nothing else can.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by lpool1996moh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:43 pm

actually your coding it so that it interacts with everything except the monster. if it interacted with nothing it would phase through other boxes. and the monsters do interact with them. they push em over, bowl through em like they aren't there. its just hard to see, you can never check. the only way this would work is if the monster was a phaseable body, and since you can't run through them at all (Before you die they do stop you in your tracks) they aren't. if you get away from a monster and backtrack you will notice the fallout from said monster.

i don't even like amnesia i'm just nitpicking that your wrong. and like dp said even if it doesn't have a physics engine (And i'm pretty sure it does) that doesn't take away from the quality of the game. by that logic most of the Survival Horror genre doesn't have physics. even the "good" Games, but besides Dead Space Survival horror hasn't had a good game in years unless you count TLoU which most including myself don't.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:47 pm

Now, you're just picking what I said on a technicality.  I didn't mention a bunch of basics, because basics aren't worth mentioning.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Pyro-Hem on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:51 pm

I was about to post something I thought would be important on here, but the forum is being weird and has lost it's posting features for whatever reason...
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:52 pm

That sucks :(
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by Pyro-Hem on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:04 pm

Siren Series Director Wants to Scare You Once Again

After working on the Siren series for years, Director Keiichiro Toyama and his team made Gravity Daze (AKA Gravity Rush) for the PS Vita. A bit of a jump in genres, you might think – though not from his perspective. Now it sounds like Toyama wants to go back to his horror roots.

The Gravity Daze development team, Team Gravity, had a teaser up at this year's Tokyo Game Show indicating that there is a new game in the works. While details are under wraps at the moment, in an interview with Weekly Famitsu, Toyama stated, "All I can say [about the game] right now is that we're working on it with the opinions and expectations of the users who've played Gravity Daze in mind."

When it was noted that developing Gravity Daze after spending years on the Siren series seemed like quite a shift in directions, Toyama interjected, saying "It may look like that from the outside, but the thought process behind Siren and Gravity Daze is actually quite similar: First you create a town, then you create an observing protagonist, then you develop the game having that protagonist get involved with a big incident. The graphics are different, but the building process is the same."

Asked if there was any game he would personally like to make, Toyama stated, "I've worked on horror games for so long, so I accumulate a lot of ideas that would be good in a horror game. So I would like to make another horror game."
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by lpool1996moh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:11 pm

Anaconda_Vice wrote:Now, you're just picking what I said on a technicality.  I didn't mention a bunch of basics, because basics aren't worth mentioning.
well thats all the physics the game basically needs and that s what it has. i can't possibly see what else you want in it. the no physics point is pretty much moot. 

there are problems you can have with the game, such as cheap scares or defenselessness (which are problems with the games objective in your mind (mine too i hate this shit) not the game, but olack of physics isn't just baseless its wrong. Amnesia is not that good its averagely average but theres plenty to bash it for rather than pulling shit out of your ass. 


now i may be taking this wayyyyy toooooo literally but either Gravity Rush 2 is a horror or they are going back to Siren or bringing Kat to Siren in an attempt to get her cameo list into double digits before her next game........idk.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by DP on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:19 pm

A creature unaffected by physics does not mean there is a lack of an engine. That just means the parameters, such as restitution, mass, etc., are set so that the particular object is exempt from the game's physics. Most objects in games end up following that definition.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:24 pm

lpool, at first you had my attention but your lack of experience with a game engine is clearly showing.  In this case, I think we're done here. In all honesty, this is the only response I can give your very baseless defense.



To simply put it, you argue on a track, you ignore any logical reason and you're boring.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by lpool1996moh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:34 pm

DP wrote:A creature unaffected by physics does not mean there is a lack of an engine. That just means the parameters, such as restitution, mass, etc., are set so that the particular object is exempt from the game's physics. Most objects in games end up following that definition.
i can't tell who thats contradicting, but even still it doesn't really matter as i said the monsters do react with whatever you can react with.  actually i believe it doesn't react with stationary objects but i can't be sure. anything you can react with however monsters just plow through

Anaconda_Vice wrote:lpool, at first you had my attention but your lack of experience with a game engine is clearly showing.  In this case, I think we're done here. In all honesty, this is the only response I can give your very baseless defense.

"Video i'm too lazy to copy"

To simply put it, you argue on a track, you ignore any logical reason and you're boring.

ok so quite simply what physics is the game missing. rather than trying to cover your ass with some smartass coment show me evidence that Amnesia doesn't have any physics.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by BigBox on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:41 pm

Does, Amnesia look or play anything like those physics I showed? No, it doesn't because the game does not run with physics. It's game design in its simplest form. If you can't understand that then stay far away from any game design software.
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Re: Survival Horror/Horror Thoughts and Opinions

Post by DP on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:56 pm

There are different types of physics engines, Anaconda; not all of them will react to your expectations (see: Havoc)

Edit: hell, even the infinity engine is a good example. It's very questionable with how the rigs work together, but just because it was buggy doesn't mean Madden didn't use a physics engine.
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