Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

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Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Count Mario on Mon May 06, 2013 1:01 am

*YOU WERE WARNED, SPOILERS IMMINENT* Also, this is going to be long because I have free time, so just skip to the last paragraph if you're that impatient (and I wouldn't blame you XD ).

So, I finally watched the movie today. Have to say, definitely better than IM2 and pretty much loved it. However, I think there's one specific part that we were all mainly concentrated on as far as a plot-twist. And no, I don't mean how it turns out Pepper was still alive at the end (I thought that was damn obvious), the vice president being part of AIM's plot, Tony removing the shrapnel from his heart using the Extremis serum like in the comics and destroying all of his suits (because we know he's just going to build them all again), etc. No, I think we could all agree (if you kept up to date with the trailers and tv spots and knew some basic knowledge about Iron Man in the comics) that we were mostly concentrated on how the Mandarin... wasn't the Mandarin. And no, Aldritch Killian is NOT the Mandarin. The Mandarin is an Asian megalomaniac warlord who uses the ten Rings of Power forged from alien technology and is basically Tony's definitive arch-enemy. All Killian was is the guy who was behind it all and had superpowers from the Extremis formula. It's like how your parents tell you that at Christmas, Santa comes to give you presents when in fact they're lying to you towards your face. They aren't a jolly fat man in a red suit with flying reindeer and a sleigh. They're simply performing the actions of Santa and metaphorically playing his role, but they still aren't Santa. Just your ordinary parents who are lying to yourself.

Now, I sort of knew/predicted that the movie's Mandarin wouldn't use the Rings of Power and I was fine with that. It would've been like how Bane was portrayed in Rises as being this burly and wise badass filled with epic quotes instead of using Venom steroids and being Latin. But this... just damn. I mean, the movie is still damn awesome and I was willing to roll with it by pushing aside the comic lore and just focusing on this movie solely. And on that front it was successful and a great, no, PERFECT plot-twist actually. But both me, you, and the movie's producers have to had to have known that they were basing this off of an actual character from the comics though and die-hard Iron Man and Mandarin fans who went to this movie expected, well, the freaking Mandarin. It isn't like Bane in Rises who though revealed to be really serving Talia was still a villain in his own right and intimidating and did everything that we saw and such. No, we got a humorous actor from Beverley Hills with two bi-sexual girls in his bed who pretended to be a terrorist who evoked fear into the American populace (which actually sounds quite funny and awesome when you say and think about that lol). The movie is excellent and I was willing to roll along with it, but I do wish that Marvel would've pulled this off differently if they wanted a plot-twist this bad.

Like, why couldn't they instead make some Asian guy who Killian secretly reported to with high status and background that would actually be the Mandarin and you could even still keep Ben Kingsley as the humorous public double. Sort of like how you thought Ra's was dead since the beginning of Begins but then after half-way through the movie when you see some guy talking to Bruce and stuff and he reveals himself, you're actually legitimately shocked and like, "Holy shit, this is Ra's al Ghul!". So yeah, I would've either preferred that or just not use Mandarin for the film. And also, thy even had a perfect potential background for how he could've gotten the Rings of Power too! Remember the Chitauri alien invasion of New York in The Avengers? Just have AIM agents or some of Mandarin's henchmen find the rings in the leftover wreckage due to them actually being alien technology. It would've made perfect sense and made the events of the Avengers actually notably relevant besides Tony having anxiety attacks every fifteen-twenty minutes or so.

I mean, if you think I'm overreacting about this, imagine one of your favorite movie adaptations having the main antagonist like Green Goblin, the Joker, Zod, Chairman Drek, etc. not appearing for most of the film outside of slight cameos despite major tension around his intimidation only ending up with the protagonist entering their stronghold and seeing some guy in his thirties living in his mom's basement and with a whole bunch of special effects equipment in his room and anime plushies nervously and saying "Oh shit... Yeah, this isn't what it looks like lol." and then you just see some macho Italian guy affiliated with the Mafia or some other dumb evil group coming out of nowhere and saying, "Oh, you looking for me? I'm *insert antagonist's name here*!"

Phew, okay. Now that I'm done with that, it still didn't harm the movie in any way and if you didn't have any knowledge of Iron Man in the comics beforehand, then you would've been in a better position for the Mandarin twist. And ignoring the comic background, it was still pretty damn funny.It was better than 2, but I need to rewatch 1 in order to see how it truly stacks up since that's my favorite Marvel movie aside from The Avengers. I liked how Tony essentially had the guts to destroy all of his suits and make Pepper think he wasn't gonna be Iron Man anymore, but if you watched the ending, you know that he's just going to make another lab and make more suits and all that good stuff for Avengers 2, of course. I was a bit agitated that I had to wait throughout all of those credits at the end with my bladder filled to the max simply to see Bruce Banner/Mark Ruffalo chat with Tony (which I was predicting would be seen in this film) and no hints towards any of the upcoming films like Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man. But it was still nice though to see Tony and Bruce being bros. Deserves the praise it's getting and now I'm hyped to see Man of Steel next. YAY


Last edited by Count Mario on Mon May 06, 2013 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by god-of-paradise on Mon May 06, 2013 1:58 am

Oh count.. I am in complete agree-ance with you in the fact that "the mandarin" plot twist could have been pulled off in a better way. I am all for humor in movies but when I found out that he is just some horny, asian actor... lol disappointment washed over me Mad The whole movie had him leading up to be some supreme badass *insert destruction of the amazing laboratory scene* In the end, yeah Killian was pretty intimidating along side the crazy explosions he set off, but still.. I just think that it could have been taken more seriously rather than going for a humorous stab at it. Don't get me wrong though, I feel that IR3 was a great blockbuster summer flick for everyone to go see but I personally think it would have been a little better more of the humor was placed into Tony and taken away from some of the supporting characters. Look at spiderman :P the humor is stuck to Peters character and only him and thats what made it a spectacular movie (....I am talking about spiderman 1 and 2 -_- not the 3rd)

BTW D: I just realized.. with the update to the site. There are no more playstation character emojis!
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Count Mario on Mon May 06, 2013 2:35 am

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Killian was portrayed in a menacing and intimidating fashion and really fits the position of how Tony created his own demons. But still, both you and me were expecting the Mandarin. Not a white guy who got his body pimped out since 1999 and has the superpower to heat things up. XD In fact, they could've also gone with having Ben Kingsley fake being an actor and then when Tony gets captured, reveals that he's the big bad again to drive him off the scent. Really, there's a bunch of ways that it could've been portrayed better. But still, I definitely agree that it was a great movie and that everyone should go see it.

I disagree a bit with the humor though. I honestly like it when the humor is spread out among the cast and even so, I feel that Tony still had the most and the best humor moments. It's like how in say, Jak and Daxter, most of the humor is originating from Daxter. And that's fine, but personally I'd appreciate it if the humor was more spread out and diverse like in Ratchet & Clank. But of course, it can work vice-versa too.

I guess that the reason I'm most disappointed with is that regardless of how you think of this, it kind of desecrates the Mandarin's name for casual crowds. I mean, I both wanted and expected him to be the next Bane, Joker, or Loki among crowds. And when you look at Iron Man's previous antagonists, be honest with me, who cares about Iron Monger, Whiplash, or H.A.M.M.E.R.? If Iron Man was able to become so relevant in culture since 2008, I was hoping for one of his most iconic villains to follow in similar fashion. But now if you mention Mandarin, people are most likely either going to laugh when they think of Trevor or reflect on Killian "being" Mandarin (which I still definitely think he's not). And honestly, I will cringe so much at the latter outcome happening, but I will at least joke and laugh about Trevor since the twist was actually funny and made a bit of sense. I can admit that.

Oh, the life of being a comic book fan can be painful, to say the least. I'll still value the movie and "character" for what it is though in that medium alone at the least. Mainly since it's all I can do besides complain lol.
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by DP on Mon May 06, 2013 2:42 am

They're there, paradise. They're just renamed now. Check the bottom of the emoticon page. Helv was recategorizing them and they currently have a different name, so instead of :D, you have to put : toro : (no spaces), for example.

No comment on the actual movie, as I only skimmed this discussion thus far and I haven't seen it.
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by god-of-paradise on Mon May 06, 2013 12:59 pm

I can see why marvel wanted iron man 3 to have a twist in not knowing who the real bad guy was because in the first 2, the villain was pretty obvious for the most part. Killian, as stated before, was definitely the biggest threat Tony has encountered so far (in the movies) and although he might not be as well known as some of the bigger iron man villains, he did add a lot of cool action sequences! Really though, my only complaint about the movie was finding out the mandarin was a fake..

The humor discussion is totally opinionated. I know a lot of people like the side humor among characters and I do to in certain types of movies but I just wanted to see more action I guess Tongue Sackboy lol the jak and daxter humor vs ratchet and clank is a great way to describe it though! I prefer the daxter style of humor with jak being semi-serious most of the time.

Oh and thanks DP! good to see they haven't changed Happy Toro
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Vytrova on Tue May 07, 2013 10:37 pm

Not reading all of it, but if no one said this yet, the mandarin thing started as an inside joke within the cast.
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by DP on Tue May 14, 2013 11:20 pm

Just saw Iron Man 3, and I feel like the whole Mandarin thing was somewhat obvious in all honesty. Once they showed off Killian in the beginning of the movie, I knew he was the big bad, regardless of any Mandarin sideplots that could arise (I was thinking this was reaching near-Spiderman 3 levels of villains for a little while). Thankfully, this didn't turn out the way that...that piece of shit did, as the writers were competent. Nothing spectacular, outside of a few twists that would catch some non-writers off guard, but it was good to see that the writing existed as more than something written on a napkin, since I value the writing most in these kinds of movies. Presentation comes close, but they nailed that as well.

Although I liked 2, I definitely think 3 is better, mainly because that whole Mickey Rourke crap sort of got stale fifteen minutes into his appearance. (I've noticed a trend: Those that liked 2, disliked 3, and vice versa. So it seems like there's always going to be a disconnect over popular opinion on those two.)
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Count Mario on Wed May 15, 2013 7:43 am

I basically had the same impression of Killian until I found that their plots were actually connected, I thought they were dual antagonists with one probably being dominant over the other. Like I said in my OP, after putting the comics aside, that twist was actually well-done. I just don't think it was really the best choice when you look at adaptation media in general. I mean, it was really only surprising if you were familiar enough with the Mandarin from comics rather than having a clean slate, honestly. And given how Marvel movies tend to reveal main villains from the get-go, well, Mandarin didn't seem that unique to me. Still, awesome movie and definitely better than 2. I just wish that casuals wouldn't think of Mandarin as a humorous actor from a plot-twist or a guy who just heats things up from a neglected proposal to a famous corporation considering how cheesy that is. what

And you want to know what trilogy doesn't fit that description? Toy Story. hurr lol But yeah, you make a good point that I've also noticed.
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Celtics_fan23 on Tue May 21, 2013 4:25 pm

I for one am very sad. One thing that really gets me is that we can't have other movies where the Mandarin's origins are revealed because, this series pretty much shot down the idea that the Mandarin was the bad guy. I'm indifferent towards the actual plot twist itself. It really could have been done better but meh. The movie thought was good in an overall sense.
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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

Post by Count Mario on Wed May 22, 2013 9:34 pm

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Re: Iron Man 3 spoiler-filled Discussion and my thoughts

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